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That isn't really a worthwhile path to go down. Since said vehicle would be barely functionable. If that is the threshold I can wrap copper wire to make my own

That isn't really a worthwhile path to go down. Since said vehicle would be barely functionable. If that is the threshold I can wrap copper wire to make my own electric motor and put thousands of potato batteries in parallel to connect to it. Then control speed by manually touching the wires together. I believe the first EV might even predate the first ICE vehicle. Reference: https://www.energy.gov/timeline/timeline-history-electric-car#:~:text=Around%201832%2C%20Robert%20Anderson%20develops,an%20English%20inventor%20in%201884 https://www.energy.gov/timeline/timeline-history-electric-ca.... https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/who-invented-the-first-car-and-when-was-it-made-76976#:~:text=Benz%2C%20a%20mechanical%20engineer%2C%20takes,received%20on%20January%2029%2C%201886 https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/who-invented-the-fir....

Gordonjcp 4y ago
"Barely functional" in what sense?
- sbradford26 4y ago
  The vehicle you could make with a "Black smiths forge" would be barely functional by todays standards. If your standard is something that converts stored energy into motion EVs and ICE takes similar levels of technology to implement. Which is why they were both invented around similar times.
  - rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
    >Which is why they were both invented around similar times. The ease with which you can make oil-based fuels convert chemical energy into mecahnical motion, is the reason that EV development largely stopped until quite recently. Efficient EVs are the pinnacle of materials and electronics engineering.
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      It seems like just the opposite to me. The current wave of EVs are very early technologies that stem from neglecting the cost of batteries for a long time. 15-20 years from now, they'll likely look more like the pinnacle of engineering, but they are actually pretty crude right now.
      - rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
        > The current wave of EVs are very early technologies The efficiencies of the various powertrain components are very high (eg, charging efficiency and motor controller efficiency). I really don't see how they can be improved by very much. The main area of improvement is the battery. >they are actually pretty crude right now Interesting. I am assured that they are the latest and greatest in motorised transport!
        _ea1k 4y ago
        > >they are actually pretty crude right now > Interesting. I am assured that they are the latest and greatest in motorised transport! These two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
        rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
        In that case I'll hold off on buying an EV until these new, futuristic and not at all crude vehicles get made. Hopefully by then, we'll have solved the problem of how to sustainably fuel both the manufacturing process and the fuelling of EVs.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    Again, what are you defining as "barely functional"? What would they not do, what would be lacking? Bear in mind that no-one cares about things like iPhone integration, reversing cameras, lane assist, or any of the other pointless crap that overcomplicates modern vehicles.
rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
>That isn't really a worthwhile path to go down It sure is. Given a year in my garage, I bet I can make a more useful, power-converting device from scratch using internal combustion tech than using electronics. >I believe the first EV might even predate the first ICE vehicle. I also believe that is true. What's old is new again - time to get rid of those "dinosuar tech" ICEs and move on to...the even older EV? Somehow electric delivery trucks are the new hotness, yet here in the UK, (lead-acid powered) milk floats are also a symbol of a byegone age.
- sbradford26 4y ago
  Given they were invented around the same time a combustion engine and electric motor take a similar level of technology to create. They require a certain level of machining and material sciences. The biggest changes that have occurred is in the "fuel" massive leaps have been made in oil refining and battery tech.
  - rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
    Getting any kind of performance and efficiency out of an electric motor requires a sophisticated controller, which is why development of EVs stalled for so long. Semiconductor tech has only recently progressed to a point that makes this viable. This says nothing of battery tech, which has also seriously lagged. Even now, EVs barely compete on practically any metric with ICE cars (except tailpipe emissions) - in my opinion, the main drivers of market demand for EVs is marketing for the new shiny, and government regulation (at least here in the EU/UK. It will be illegal to manufacture an ICE, quite soon).
    - sbradford26 4y ago
      Electric motor controls have been around a very long time. That isn't to say they haven't gotten better but I would say the largest part of the motor controllers that requires sophistication is regenerative braking and such. But just controlling a motor speed has been around for many years, example hybrid electric trains, elevators, water pumps. Motor controllers were not the limiting factor for EVs it was battery tech. Not sure what metrics you are looking at but EVs cost less per mile to operate, accelerate faster, are quieter, and have lower maintenance. Those may not be the metrics you look for but saying EVs can't compete is ridiculous.

Gordonjcp 4y ago

"Barely functional" in what sense?

sbradford26 4y ago
The vehicle you could make with a "Black smiths forge" would be barely functional by todays standards. If your standard is something that converts stored energy into motion EVs and ICE takes similar levels of technology to implement. Which is why they were both invented around similar times.
- rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
  >Which is why they were both invented around similar times. The ease with which you can make oil-based fuels convert chemical energy into mecahnical motion, is the reason that EV development largely stopped until quite recently. Efficient EVs are the pinnacle of materials and electronics engineering.
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    It seems like just the opposite to me. The current wave of EVs are very early technologies that stem from neglecting the cost of batteries for a long time. 15-20 years from now, they'll likely look more like the pinnacle of engineering, but they are actually pretty crude right now.
    - rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
      > The current wave of EVs are very early technologies The efficiencies of the various powertrain components are very high (eg, charging efficiency and motor controller efficiency). I really don't see how they can be improved by very much. The main area of improvement is the battery. >they are actually pretty crude right now Interesting. I am assured that they are the latest and greatest in motorised transport!
      - _ea1k 4y ago
        > >they are actually pretty crude right now > Interesting. I am assured that they are the latest and greatest in motorised transport! These two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
        rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
        In that case I'll hold off on buying an EV until these new, futuristic and not at all crude vehicles get made. Hopefully by then, we'll have solved the problem of how to sustainably fuel both the manufacturing process and the fuelling of EVs.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  Again, what are you defining as "barely functional"? What would they not do, what would be lacking? Bear in mind that no-one cares about things like iPhone integration, reversing cameras, lane assist, or any of the other pointless crap that overcomplicates modern vehicles.

rewiuoeriouf 4y ago

>That isn't really a worthwhile path to go down It sure is. Given a year in my garage, I bet I can make a more useful, power-converting device from scratch using internal combustion tech than using electronics. >I believe the first EV might even predate the first ICE vehicle. I also believe that is true. What's old is new again - time to get rid of those "dinosuar tech" ICEs and move on to...the even older EV? Somehow electric delivery trucks are the new hotness, yet here in the UK, (lead-acid powered) milk floats are also a symbol of a byegone age.

sbradford26 4y ago
Given they were invented around the same time a combustion engine and electric motor take a similar level of technology to create. They require a certain level of machining and material sciences. The biggest changes that have occurred is in the "fuel" massive leaps have been made in oil refining and battery tech.
- rewiuoeriouf 4y ago
  Getting any kind of performance and efficiency out of an electric motor requires a sophisticated controller, which is why development of EVs stalled for so long. Semiconductor tech has only recently progressed to a point that makes this viable. This says nothing of battery tech, which has also seriously lagged. Even now, EVs barely compete on practically any metric with ICE cars (except tailpipe emissions) - in my opinion, the main drivers of market demand for EVs is marketing for the new shiny, and government regulation (at least here in the EU/UK. It will be illegal to manufacture an ICE, quite soon).
  - sbradford26 4y ago
    Electric motor controls have been around a very long time. That isn't to say they haven't gotten better but I would say the largest part of the motor controllers that requires sophistication is regenerative braking and such. But just controlling a motor speed has been around for many years, example hybrid electric trains, elevators, water pumps. Motor controllers were not the limiting factor for EVs it was battery tech. Not sure what metrics you are looking at but EVs cost less per mile to operate, accelerate faster, are quieter, and have lower maintenance. Those may not be the metrics you look for but saying EVs can't compete is ridiculous.