4 ms·
How much energy do you need to compress this H2 ?
by edhelas 4y ago
How much energy do you need to compress this H2 ?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- kUdtiHaEX 4y agoNot nearly as much as required to produce batteries.
- eis 4y agoApples and oranges. You would need to compare energy needed to produce the tank and fuel cell to the production of batteries.
- kUdtiHaEX 4y agoSure but in that case please add energy costs for recycling the batteries bs recycling tanks for hydrogen. And I do not see how batteries can win in this race.
- snovv_crash 4y agoHydrogen embrittled metal isn't very recycling friendly.
- msh 4y agoAnd how long is the lifetime? A battery lasts for many years. H2 is used more or less immediately.
- tmikaeld 4y agoAround 7% of the energy will be lost when refueling a 700-bar container (If i remember correctly)
- HPsquared 4y agoHow much of that is recoverable? With a heat engine on the compression side to reclaim the heat, and a turbine on the expansion side to reclaim the work.
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoA promising development is physical-chemical storage that doesn't require compression for storage, that seems to make hydrogen powered vehicles far more likely to win out over current battery-based EV technologies. One of the technologies metal organic frameworks (MOF) seems to have been creating some buzz recently. General overview: https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/materials-based-hydrogen-storage https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/materials-based-hydrog...
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoEven with zero storage costs, hydrogen cars can't compete with batteries, since it's electricity -> battery -> electric motor vs electricity -> hydrogen -> battery -> electric motor and that extra step takes energy. It's only on longer distances that it begins to make sense as a tradeoff but even there it's not clear there's much room for it in the market.
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoSurely with hydrogen it's a fuel cell (and relatively v. small battery for regenerative braking and such), not a battery like a BEV? And as the hydrogen, using a tech like MOF, would be cheaper to store, and easier to store longer term ... the extra energy expense seems a priori to remove a lot of e- waste and reliance on mining in developing nations. I'm not sure how the life-cycle overall energy usage compares, would be interested in reading a study of someone wants to link one. I'm hoping that hydrogen storage will become easy enough that we'll use that for large scale excesses like those from nation-size grids during excess production. So we can do seasonal shifting at scale.
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoHydrogen Fuel Cell is about 4x less efficient than BEV because you lose about half the initial energy making the hydrogen and half of that going back to electricity again. It's just very hard to come back from that if you have an alternative that uses the electricity directly. They're still better than conventional ICE (as long as the hydrogen is made from renewable energy) but just on energy alone BEVs are about 88% efficient, FCEVs 22% and ICE 18% efficient.