17 ms·

I hope to god that one day we will all see this nonsense for what it is: absurdly hilarious.

by betwixthewires 4y ago

Gigachad 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
drewcoo 4y ago
- MarkSweep 4y ago
  There is a whole Wikipedia article for it!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postgenderism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postgenderism
  - rayiner 4y ago
    I wish “the discourse” would learn to acknowledge the difference between post-genderist ideas, and basic rights for transgender people. The latter is (1) already the law of the land, and (2) not politically controversial: https://www.kff.org/other/press-release/poll-large-majorities-including-republicans-oppose-discrimination-against-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-people-by-employers-and-health-care-providers/ https://www.kff.org/other/press-release/poll-large-majoritie... (“Large majorities of Americans think it should be illegal for either employers or health care providers to discriminate against people because they are lesbian, gay or bisexual, or transgender, a new KFF poll finds. This includes large majorities of Republicans, independents and Democrats.”) See also: https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/icymi-bidens-bostock-eo-rated-most-popular https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/icymi-bidens-bostock-eo-r... (83% of the public, including 63% of Republicans support Biden’s executive order protecting trans rights). At this stage, attempting to use trans rights as a vehicle for broader changes to society’s notions of gender harms rather than helps trans people. It takes something that has broad support and is increasingly uncontroversial, and lashes it to a broader intellectual project that’s alienating and unpopular.
    - smegsicle 4y ago
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Elinvynia 4y ago
        Bathrooms and prisons, definitely. There is no magical barrier stopping a man from entering a woman's bathroom. What you are suggesting otherwise is buff trans men having to use the same bathroom as cis women, basically fulfilling your transphobic stereotype just not in a way you anticipated :) As for sports, that's for the specific sport organizations to decide the rules based on latest research.
  - alexb_ 4y ago
    If we eliminate gender as a social concept, what will we be left with to categorize people? Back to where we started?
- smegsicle 4y ago
Mo3 4y ago
It's gonna come soon enough. The backlash is already mounting. I'm just honestly super exhausted by any of the insanity right now, not even only regarding this topic. It's just complete black-and-white thinking these days, no matter about what it is. Extremes only. The stronger your opinion the better, how else would you feel like you exist? Almost no one with a rational, centered overarching perspective. Twenty years ago 50% of the current population would've been considered as possibly having BPD.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
  > The backlash is already mounting. Is it? To me it feels like it's getting worse and worse, but that might be my bubble.
  - smegsicle 4y ago
    getting worse from both sides
  - scifibestfi 4y ago
    This mind virus is even capturing science. Here's a job opening for a Research Chair in Experimental Physics. "Candidates must be from one or more of the following equity-seeking groups to apply: women, persons with disabilities, Indigenous peoples, and racialized groups" https://www.universityaffairs.ca/search-job/?job_id=58317 https://www.universityaffairs.ca/search-job/?job_id=58317
    - nonethewiser 4y ago
      Turns out the cry of "institutionalized racism and sexism" was actually a threat.
  - Mo3 4y ago
    - dillondoyle 4y ago
silisili 4y ago
I dunno, living through it, feels more absurd than hilarous.
fugalfervor 4y ago
I don't really find it that funny. I don't think the correct response to everyone being upset by this (from many different angles) is to stand back from it and laugh at it. Some people feel that wokeness is ruining the world. I can't really speak to that position because my political initialization was on the other side of the cultural gulf in America. The way I have come to understand transgender issues is very much shaped by the political left, but also by a religious upbringing (Catholic, Jesuit). On the left, I am told that this is a human rights issue. I am inclined to believe that transgender people have a hard time in life. I am also inclined to believe that it is not a mental disorder, and I came to these conclusions through conversations with transgender people I have worked with in the past, as well as through what I learned in my psychology classes in high school and college. I am a white male who was born that way, but I definitely know what it feels like to be ridiculed, to not belong and to feel that there is no right place for me in this world. I have been abused, made to feel small, ostracized and bullied. Those experiences have given me a pretty deep understanding of what suffering is, and how it can be caused. It has also softened me and made me pretty empathetic to others who feel they don't belong in this world. As an example, I was once at a comedy show where a comedian made a transgender-adjacent joke. The humor of the joke was all in a stupid pun, and I thought it was pretty funny because I like stupid puns. But there was a transgender woman in the audience who got immediately angry. I don't remember exactly what she said, but it was something along the lines of "That's not funny, I'm sick of people like you shouting at me in the street!!". If I had to go though my life having people shouting at me in the streets of NYC because of how I looked vs how other people thought I should look, I may have responded in the same way. I thought the joke was funny, but for her it touched on some deeply painful memories of abuse, dragged them to the surface, and activated a lightning-quick temper. Perhaps if I'd been abused for as long as she, and in the same way, I wouldn't have thought the joke was funny either. I understand people don't like being corrected, or told that they're wrong or that they're hateful. I don't think that is a productive way to bring about change; and yet, I have found myself picking fights with my parents, and getting generally nasty when they have failed to understand some value I have learned that I did not learn from them. That is obviously a bad thing, because the message they come away with is "what a jerk!" or "those damn lefties!". What I'd rather have people come away with after they hear me speak is something quite different. It was only after raging at my parents enough times that I decided I just wouldn't talk to my parents about politics. There is more right about my parents than there is wrong about them; they are getting older and their bodies will decline until they die. Most likely it will happen to them before it happens to me, at a time when I am able in body and mind, so I intend (even though I sometimes fail) to spend the rest of our time together as peacefully as possible. I offer this earnestly in good faith. Sometimes the message gets muddied in the delivery, or because I get upset when I perceive (or sometimes, misperceive) that someone is being uncaring for those who are already suffering enough. I think I react that way because of my own history of abuse. I am also open to hearing the other side of this story. I have attempted not to misrepresent $OTHER_SIDE's view of things. I am only speaking to why I have such strong feelings about this issue. I am sure others have equally strong feelings on another side, and I am open to hearing what that sounds like, provided the viewpoint is offered with respect.

I hope to god that one day we will all see this nonsense for what it is: absurdly hilarious.

Gigachad 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

drewcoo 4y ago

MarkSweep 4y ago
There is a whole Wikipedia article for it!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postgenderism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postgenderism
- rayiner 4y ago
  I wish “the discourse” would learn to acknowledge the difference between post-genderist ideas, and basic rights for transgender people. The latter is (1) already the law of the land, and (2) not politically controversial: https://www.kff.org/other/press-release/poll-large-majorities-including-republicans-oppose-discrimination-against-lesbian-gay-bisexual-and-transgender-people-by-employers-and-health-care-providers/ https://www.kff.org/other/press-release/poll-large-majoritie... (“Large majorities of Americans think it should be illegal for either employers or health care providers to discriminate against people because they are lesbian, gay or bisexual, or transgender, a new KFF poll finds. This includes large majorities of Republicans, independents and Democrats.”) See also: https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/icymi-bidens-bostock-eo-rated-most-popular https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/icymi-bidens-bostock-eo-r... (83% of the public, including 63% of Republicans support Biden’s executive order protecting trans rights). At this stage, attempting to use trans rights as a vehicle for broader changes to society’s notions of gender harms rather than helps trans people. It takes something that has broad support and is increasingly uncontroversial, and lashes it to a broader intellectual project that’s alienating and unpopular.
  - smegsicle 4y ago
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Elinvynia 4y ago
      Bathrooms and prisons, definitely. There is no magical barrier stopping a man from entering a woman's bathroom. What you are suggesting otherwise is buff trans men having to use the same bathroom as cis women, basically fulfilling your transphobic stereotype just not in a way you anticipated :) As for sports, that's for the specific sport organizations to decide the rules based on latest research.
- alexb_ 4y ago
  If we eliminate gender as a social concept, what will we be left with to categorize people? Back to where we started?
smegsicle 4y ago

Mo3 4y ago

It's gonna come soon enough. The backlash is already mounting. I'm just honestly super exhausted by any of the insanity right now, not even only regarding this topic. It's just complete black-and-white thinking these days, no matter about what it is. Extremes only. The stronger your opinion the better, how else would you feel like you exist? Almost no one with a rational, centered overarching perspective. Twenty years ago 50% of the current population would've been considered as possibly having BPD.

tgsovlerkhgsel 4y ago
> The backlash is already mounting. Is it? To me it feels like it's getting worse and worse, but that might be my bubble.
- smegsicle 4y ago
  getting worse from both sides
- scifibestfi 4y ago
  This mind virus is even capturing science. Here's a job opening for a Research Chair in Experimental Physics. "Candidates must be from one or more of the following equity-seeking groups to apply: women, persons with disabilities, Indigenous peoples, and racialized groups" https://www.universityaffairs.ca/search-job/?job_id=58317 https://www.universityaffairs.ca/search-job/?job_id=58317
  - nonethewiser 4y ago
    Turns out the cry of "institutionalized racism and sexism" was actually a threat.
- Mo3 4y ago
  - dillondoyle 4y ago

silisili 4y ago

I dunno, living through it, feels more absurd than hilarous.

fugalfervor 4y ago

I don't really find it that funny. I don't think the correct response to everyone being upset by this (from many different angles) is to stand back from it and laugh at it. Some people feel that wokeness is ruining the world. I can't really speak to that position because my political initialization was on the other side of the cultural gulf in America. The way I have come to understand transgender issues is very much shaped by the political left, but also by a religious upbringing (Catholic, Jesuit). On the left, I am told that this is a human rights issue. I am inclined to believe that transgender people have a hard time in life. I am also inclined to believe that it is not a mental disorder, and I came to these conclusions through conversations with transgender people I have worked with in the past, as well as through what I learned in my psychology classes in high school and college. I am a white male who was born that way, but I definitely know what it feels like to be ridiculed, to not belong and to feel that there is no right place for me in this world. I have been abused, made to feel small, ostracized and bullied. Those experiences have given me a pretty deep understanding of what suffering is, and how it can be caused. It has also softened me and made me pretty empathetic to others who feel they don't belong in this world. As an example, I was once at a comedy show where a comedian made a transgender-adjacent joke. The humor of the joke was all in a stupid pun, and I thought it was pretty funny because I like stupid puns. But there was a transgender woman in the audience who got immediately angry. I don't remember exactly what she said, but it was something along the lines of "That's not funny, I'm sick of people like you shouting at me in the street!!". If I had to go though my life having people shouting at me in the streets of NYC because of how I looked vs how other people thought I should look, I may have responded in the same way. I thought the joke was funny, but for her it touched on some deeply painful memories of abuse, dragged them to the surface, and activated a lightning-quick temper. Perhaps if I'd been abused for as long as she, and in the same way, I wouldn't have thought the joke was funny either. I understand people don't like being corrected, or told that they're wrong or that they're hateful. I don't think that is a productive way to bring about change; and yet, I have found myself picking fights with my parents, and getting generally nasty when they have failed to understand some value I have learned that I did not learn from them. That is obviously a bad thing, because the message they come away with is "what a jerk!" or "those damn lefties!". What I'd rather have people come away with after they hear me speak is something quite different. It was only after raging at my parents enough times that I decided I just wouldn't talk to my parents about politics. There is more right about my parents than there is wrong about them; they are getting older and their bodies will decline until they die. Most likely it will happen to them before it happens to me, at a time when I am able in body and mind, so I intend (even though I sometimes fail) to spend the rest of our time together as peacefully as possible. I offer this earnestly in good faith. Sometimes the message gets muddied in the delivery, or because I get upset when I perceive (or sometimes, misperceive) that someone is being uncaring for those who are already suffering enough. I think I react that way because of my own history of abuse. I am also open to hearing the other side of this story. I have attempted not to misrepresent $OTHER_SIDE's view of things. I am only speaking to why I have such strong feelings about this issue. I am sure others have equally strong feelings on another side, and I am open to hearing what that sounds like, provided the viewpoint is offered with respect.