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Yes. With a mouse I can select text between brackets and delete it, with vim I can tell the editor to do that. Well, what's the difference? The difference is

Yes. With a mouse I can select text between brackets and delete it, with vim I can tell the editor to do that. Well, what's the difference? The difference is the editor won't accidentally delete one of the brackets ever. That's not possible with the mouse. That's possible with the keyboard.

zasdffaa 4y ago
You've never hit the wrong key on a keyboard and made a mess, ever? I have.
- samatman 4y ago
  If I mess up I literally hit u before consciously realizing it. I'm not ready to swear I've never mistyped `dib` but it doesn't happen often. Let's say `d8b` for the sake of argument: okay, `d8budib` is a longer way of saying it. Mouse doesn't have an undo button. I use the mouse a lot actually, no rodent allergy here. It's not as powerful a tool, it's just not, but it's versatile and literal, the multitool of the UX: I can always click my way to the state I need if all else fails.
  - badsectoracula 4y ago
    > Mouse doesn't have an undo button. Your keyboard does though, as probably does the GUI of your editor in a toolbar or menu item. It isn't like you have to use only the mouse. The mouse was meant to be used together with the keyboard, not as a replacement.
    - samatman 4y ago
      Yes, yet in a thread specifically about what keyboards can do which mouses can't, "you can use the keyboard for that" is the point. There's a menu item for Undo in most GUI applictions. But who has time? If you can undo from TUI vim without a keystroke, I don't happen to know how.
      - badsectoracula 4y ago
        The point was the original question "you mean it can do more than is actually possible to do with a mouse?" was wrong because it isn't a question of mouse vs keyboard since mice are not meant to be used by themselves but instead they augment what you can already do with the keyboard.
dmitriid 4y ago
> the editor won't accidentally delete one of the brackets ever There's too much faith in your editor. Also. A mouse is a precision pointing device with some tools built in. By the time you've counted how many lines and characters you need to jump in a specific direction, I've already placed my cursor there with a mouse and proceeded with the task I needed to perform. Because there's no dichotomy between a mouse and a keyboard as vim users would have us believe. These are two tools that people use, effectively, and together.
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  It actually depends. I'm an emacs user and C-h will select the current 'paragraph', repeated C-h will select the next one down, repeatedly. Moving by paragraphs can be very quick. If you want that, it's almost instant. Also C-u allows multiples of whatever you want. I can move say, 19 lines up with C-u C-u C-p C-u C-p C-n (move up 16 lines, move up 4 lines, move down one line) and it can be quicker than you'd think - there is a cost of moving your hand to and from the mouse/trackball. If you know it's 19 lines exactly, C-u 1 9 C-p. It can be quicker, depending. For precise selection down to the character where gross markers aren't present, yeah, I deffo go with the mouse. I'm agreeing with you here, just adding a perspective.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > Also C-u allows multiples of whatever you want. I can move say, 19 lines up with C-u C-u C-p C-u C-p C-n (move up 16 lines, move up 4 lines, move down one line) Or, you know, one click with the mouse. Because sane people don't count lines and characters.
    - zasdffaa 4y ago
      Dick comment. I'm talking from experience that keyboard is sometimes faster, and I actually say (clearly you didn't read to the 4th para) that a mouse is better in other cases. Try reading an entire post before responding.
      - 4y ago

zasdffaa 4y ago

You've never hit the wrong key on a keyboard and made a mess, ever? I have.

samatman 4y ago
If I mess up I literally hit u before consciously realizing it. I'm not ready to swear I've never mistyped `dib` but it doesn't happen often. Let's say `d8b` for the sake of argument: okay, `d8budib` is a longer way of saying it. Mouse doesn't have an undo button. I use the mouse a lot actually, no rodent allergy here. It's not as powerful a tool, it's just not, but it's versatile and literal, the multitool of the UX: I can always click my way to the state I need if all else fails.
- badsectoracula 4y ago
  > Mouse doesn't have an undo button. Your keyboard does though, as probably does the GUI of your editor in a toolbar or menu item. It isn't like you have to use only the mouse. The mouse was meant to be used together with the keyboard, not as a replacement.
  - samatman 4y ago
    Yes, yet in a thread specifically about what keyboards can do which mouses can't, "you can use the keyboard for that" is the point. There's a menu item for Undo in most GUI applictions. But who has time? If you can undo from TUI vim without a keystroke, I don't happen to know how.
    - badsectoracula 4y ago
      The point was the original question "you mean it can do more than is actually possible to do with a mouse?" was wrong because it isn't a question of mouse vs keyboard since mice are not meant to be used by themselves but instead they augment what you can already do with the keyboard.

dmitriid 4y ago

> the editor won't accidentally delete one of the brackets ever There's too much faith in your editor. Also. A mouse is a precision pointing device with some tools built in. By the time you've counted how many lines and characters you need to jump in a specific direction, I've already placed my cursor there with a mouse and proceeded with the task I needed to perform. Because there's no dichotomy between a mouse and a keyboard as vim users would have us believe. These are two tools that people use, effectively, and together.

zasdffaa 4y ago
It actually depends. I'm an emacs user and C-h will select the current 'paragraph', repeated C-h will select the next one down, repeatedly. Moving by paragraphs can be very quick. If you want that, it's almost instant. Also C-u allows multiples of whatever you want. I can move say, 19 lines up with C-u C-u C-p C-u C-p C-n (move up 16 lines, move up 4 lines, move down one line) and it can be quicker than you'd think - there is a cost of moving your hand to and from the mouse/trackball. If you know it's 19 lines exactly, C-u 1 9 C-p. It can be quicker, depending. For precise selection down to the character where gross markers aren't present, yeah, I deffo go with the mouse. I'm agreeing with you here, just adding a perspective.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > Also C-u allows multiples of whatever you want. I can move say, 19 lines up with C-u C-u C-p C-u C-p C-n (move up 16 lines, move up 4 lines, move down one line) Or, you know, one click with the mouse. Because sane people don't count lines and characters.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    Dick comment. I'm talking from experience that keyboard is sometimes faster, and I actually say (clearly you didn't read to the 4th para) that a mouse is better in other cases. Try reading an entire post before responding.
    - 4y ago