5 ms·

If only we had some other long term home closer at hand.

yrgulation 4y ago
One that we keep digging in instead of digging asteroids, the moon or mars. It’s like taking a poo in your living room because you already have the space available. We should offload all destructive resource gathering off this planet, precisely so we keep our home clean.
- TomSwirly 4y ago
  The idea that we will move heavy industry off the planet sounded entertaining in the 1970s. Now it's just sad. No, space won't save us. We have to stabilize the planet first.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    We do, and one of the methods is externalising to space. But yes, we have to stabilise it. Both can be done at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive and neither is to the detriment of the other.
- slg 4y ago
  Gathering resources isn't the really destructive part. Using and eventually disposing of those resources is the what is ruining the planet, not digging them up.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    Open pit mining (for coal) is literally destructing all landscape, along with forests and villages. And gold mining and co. uses some very nasty chemicals. Etc. Etc. So sure, burning coal is dirty, but so is extracting it. But since space mining is a really long term project, I would first try to make the processes here on earth a bit better. (With the challenge of raising the standards globally)
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    I imagine there’s plenty of space in … space to slingshot garbage far enough that we’d never have to worry about it again. Just because mining isn’t popular in the media, it doesn't mean its clean. The amount of pollution and destruction it causes is unimaginable. Let alone the dependency on non democratic countries for rare resources, which just like oil and gas, are finite.
    - mulmen 4y ago
      The problem with slingshotting things is the enormous energy required to escape the gravity well. Space based manufacturing will be a thing. Raw material import/export is prohibited by the laws of physics.
      - yrgulation 4y ago
        > Space based manufacturing will be a thing. That is preferred. Why manufacture anything here when you can have better processes outside. I.e.: welding works better outside earth's atmosphere through cold welding. Pretty sure there may be other manufacturing processes that can be done better out there with the aid of bots and little human interaction. > the enormous energy required to escape the gravity well. Enormous based on what we know so far. I am sure if we put effort we'd reach far. I imagine people 100-200 years ago thought building massive metal based ships that carry thousands of people and are the size of a building block required enormous energy. Yet we do it for fun these days.
        mulmen 4y ago
        The energy requirements can’t change. That’s the laws of physics part. All we can do is figure out economically viable ways of producing and using that energy. Enormous ships use enormous amounts of energy. Our ability to harness sufficient energy is what makes those ships possible.
- survirtual 4y ago
  This is very correct. Earth is a treasure of life and biology. Space is filled with endless resources but no known life. The equation is very, very simple. Protect the life on Earth at all costs and reduce interference in natural evolution. Migrate off-world to barren wastes and mine them. Every feasible activity that can be done off world, should be. Use those space resources to build self-sufficient extra-terra systems and eventually migrate all modern / advanced tech off of earth, and remove all traces of our existence there so that new intelligence can take root. Leave behind only humans who live simply.
  - sneak 4y ago
    > Protect the life on Earth at all costs There will eventually be a threat to Earth's biosphere that we simply lack the technology to divert, avoid, or remediate. Pretending that this isn't true eventually results in human extinction.
    - survirtual 4y ago
      Agreed. Rogue black holes, gamma ray bursts, or even the very fundamental constants of known physics shifting to a more stable form and that new rule propagating at light speed imperceptibly — and countless, countless other possible dangers. We are no where near the technological level to deal with these, as we cannot even deal with simpler world-ending events (meteor strikes, desertification, proper stewardship of emerging AI, nuclear war). In addition to all the other reasons one can muster, our advancement in technology can easily be motivated and justified by the objective of Earth preservation and propagation. It will be interesting to see, however, as we potentially discover other forms of life maybe in places we actually think are barren, how we as a species cope with that. But we are not even remotely at that problem space yet.
  - api 4y ago
    That'd make a great sci-fi world setting: primitivists who occasionally hop in their spaceship and plug into a superintelligence. Seriously though: I do think a far future option for preserving the Earth is to move at least heavy polluting industries off world. All technology is not going to happen but we could put Shenzhen on the moon. I could see the moon being Earth's industrial park.

One that we keep digging in instead of digging asteroids, the moon or mars. It’s like taking a poo in your living room because you already have the space available. We should offload all destructive resource gathering off this planet, precisely so we keep our home clean.

TomSwirly 4y ago
The idea that we will move heavy industry off the planet sounded entertaining in the 1970s. Now it's just sad. No, space won't save us. We have to stabilize the planet first.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  We do, and one of the methods is externalising to space. But yes, we have to stabilise it. Both can be done at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive and neither is to the detriment of the other.
slg 4y ago
Gathering resources isn't the really destructive part. Using and eventually disposing of those resources is the what is ruining the planet, not digging them up.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  Open pit mining (for coal) is literally destructing all landscape, along with forests and villages. And gold mining and co. uses some very nasty chemicals. Etc. Etc. So sure, burning coal is dirty, but so is extracting it. But since space mining is a really long term project, I would first try to make the processes here on earth a bit better. (With the challenge of raising the standards globally)
- yrgulation 4y ago
  I imagine there’s plenty of space in … space to slingshot garbage far enough that we’d never have to worry about it again. Just because mining isn’t popular in the media, it doesn't mean its clean. The amount of pollution and destruction it causes is unimaginable. Let alone the dependency on non democratic countries for rare resources, which just like oil and gas, are finite.
  - mulmen 4y ago
    The problem with slingshotting things is the enormous energy required to escape the gravity well. Space based manufacturing will be a thing. Raw material import/export is prohibited by the laws of physics.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      > Space based manufacturing will be a thing. That is preferred. Why manufacture anything here when you can have better processes outside. I.e.: welding works better outside earth's atmosphere through cold welding. Pretty sure there may be other manufacturing processes that can be done better out there with the aid of bots and little human interaction. > the enormous energy required to escape the gravity well. Enormous based on what we know so far. I am sure if we put effort we'd reach far. I imagine people 100-200 years ago thought building massive metal based ships that carry thousands of people and are the size of a building block required enormous energy. Yet we do it for fun these days.
      - mulmen 4y ago
        The energy requirements can’t change. That’s the laws of physics part. All we can do is figure out economically viable ways of producing and using that energy. Enormous ships use enormous amounts of energy. Our ability to harness sufficient energy is what makes those ships possible.
survirtual 4y ago
This is very correct. Earth is a treasure of life and biology. Space is filled with endless resources but no known life. The equation is very, very simple. Protect the life on Earth at all costs and reduce interference in natural evolution. Migrate off-world to barren wastes and mine them. Every feasible activity that can be done off world, should be. Use those space resources to build self-sufficient extra-terra systems and eventually migrate all modern / advanced tech off of earth, and remove all traces of our existence there so that new intelligence can take root. Leave behind only humans who live simply.
- sneak 4y ago
  > Protect the life on Earth at all costs There will eventually be a threat to Earth's biosphere that we simply lack the technology to divert, avoid, or remediate. Pretending that this isn't true eventually results in human extinction.
  - survirtual 4y ago
    Agreed. Rogue black holes, gamma ray bursts, or even the very fundamental constants of known physics shifting to a more stable form and that new rule propagating at light speed imperceptibly — and countless, countless other possible dangers. We are no where near the technological level to deal with these, as we cannot even deal with simpler world-ending events (meteor strikes, desertification, proper stewardship of emerging AI, nuclear war). In addition to all the other reasons one can muster, our advancement in technology can easily be motivated and justified by the objective of Earth preservation and propagation. It will be interesting to see, however, as we potentially discover other forms of life maybe in places we actually think are barren, how we as a species cope with that. But we are not even remotely at that problem space yet.
- api 4y ago
  That'd make a great sci-fi world setting: primitivists who occasionally hop in their spaceship and plug into a superintelligence. Seriously though: I do think a far future option for preserving the Earth is to move at least heavy polluting industries off world. All technology is not going to happen but we could put Shenzhen on the moon. I could see the moon being Earth's industrial park.