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TikTok makes me incredibly angry and I need to vent about it somewhere so I am going to vent about it here. I have ADHD. TikTok is almost certainly designed in

• Damogran6 4y ago
  It's not only TikTok. To an extent, nearly EVERYTHING entertainment is designed to be sticky. Candy Crush, Sports Betting, Twitter, Facebook, Youtube...all are designed to maximize engagement.
• dncornholio 4y ago
  You could have left the ADHD part out of your comment and your argument would stand just as true.
  • lghh 4y ago
    Yeah, probably. Having ADHD doesn't help the issue.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
• lma21 4y ago
  I installed it for one day, then I removed it. Came back a few days later, then I removed it again, And I've been in this (vicious) cycle for a while now. Whenever boredom hits, something in me thinks of TikTok. It's impressive. Never had that feeling with other platforms, not even Reddit. To fight TikTok, i'm trying a different approach, getting to know what my bored self really wants and feed it something else.
  • criddell 4y ago
    I’ve given TikTok a try four or five times now and for some reason it just doesn’t click with me. It’s not that I’m immune to this stuff because I really enjoy Instagram and I read HN fairly regularly. It seems that I’m somebody the TikTok algorithm doesn’t know how to serve. I did see a few interesting videos, but nothing very compelling. How many dog videos or welding videos does one person need to see? Instagram, on the other hand, is super sticky for me because I know the people I follow and it’s wonderful to see a photo of them and message back and forth once in a while.
• thenerdhead 4y ago
  Yeah but to be fair the internet has been like this for awhile now. TikTok just takes what the internet offers and gives you a respective hit of dopamine or adrenaline to persuade you to swipe more.
• kennywinker 4y ago
  Or how people with body image issues feel about instagram? Or how people with social injustice fixations feel about facebook? Or how people with porn addictions feel about pornhub? These platforms are clearly utilizing super-normal stimuli to overwhelm our brains and elicit addiction-like behavior. Is that legal? Yes. Is that moral? Hell no.
  • MandieD 4y ago
    The concept of super-normal stimuli, or more specifically, the avoidance thereof, has guided a lot of my parenting decisions. I know I won’t keep him away from all of that forever, but I want to make as much space as possible these early years for his little mind and attention span to develop.
• root_axis 4y ago
  It's just a video app, exercise some self-discipline and self-accountability and uninstall the app.
  • Sparkle-san 4y ago
    They clearly did uninstall it but "use some some-discipline" is pretty disingenuous given companies are abusing biological mechanisms to get people hooked on their apps. This is especially true for teenagers who are underdeveloped in the self-discipline department.
    • system16 4y ago
      Replace TikTok with food, porn, or drugs. At some point the individual has to take responsibility for their actions and seek support if it's something they can't do on their own. Or we just ban everything.
      • hiq 4y ago
        I'm not sure what your point is, we do ban some of these (with various successes and failures), so why wouldn't we do the same for social media? Yes we shouldn't ban everything, but there's a large spectrum of acceptable regulations with different tradeoffs and it's fine to discuss what your society wants in that regard instead of precluding any kind of regulation.
        • system16 4y ago
          TikTok is not as harmful as drugs (at least I haven't seen anyone end up on skid row over watching too many dancing videos). So if it's to be regulated it would likely be similar to porn or gambling and be age restricted. OP is clearly an adult capable of making their own decisions, so this regulation wouldn't help them. So what is your point?
          • hiq 4y ago
            In many countries gambling regulations go beyond age restrictions and companies evolving in that space have to provide safeguards to prevent certain behaviors. I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine similar regulations for things like social media, at least it's a real possibility that exists before simply banning everything.
• silicon2401 4y ago
  > It feels like they are making a real attempt to take my agency away and to create a product that triggers me so viscerally that I can't keep away from it. That's most social media and even products in general. Profit comes from consumption, and the best way to keep you consuming is to keep you engaged. Products thrive off of outrage which is why platforms like social media and the news optimize for outraging consumers rather than efficiently delivering information, which is why I actively avoid typical social media or the news. Just don't use it
• maicro 4y ago
  I've not been diagnosed with ADHD, though have some symptoms (though honestly, some of those are just standard "human living in 2022"), but I do know I have what I would consider an "addictive personality". I can't answer how gambling addicts or smokers feel, but I will share a similar experience - I had to uninstall Candy Crush Saga from my phone, because I would literally open it, and then "come to" ~40 minutes later at the end of my drive (carpool, not me driving). This went on for about two weeks before I decided to uninstall the game. I've never been on TikTok, but I do know that mobile games like Candy Crush are designed specifically to be addictive/habit forming - look up "gamification" for some related aspects, though that's really more about applying those sorts of mechanisms (mostly daily login bonuses / streak rewards, but also carefully spaced repetitions / cooldowns to get you to come back multiple times a day, highly stimulating audio and visual feedback for that "dopamine rush") to form habits around other domains (exercise being a theoretically "positive" application). All that is to say, good on you for recognizing your negative interaction with that app, and for uninstalling it. I don't know where the balance lies when weighing personal freedom (of both you to install whatever you want, and developers to release whatever they want) vs. legislation and regulation, but I do think awareness of the techniques that are being used (similar to how I learn as much as possible about scams / social engineering) is extremely important on a personal level. One final note - 2048, a few years after Candy Crush, hit me in a pretty similar way. The interesting thing there is, with no ads, microtransactions or fancy animations, it really was the core gameplay loop that I got hooked on. After finally hitting the titular number, however, I uninstalled it and haven't gone back.
  • zoltrix303 4y ago
    I read a book called "the power of habits" a few years back and there was a few chapters focusing on the gamification and how our brains tend to develop habits (and in some case addiction). Ever since reading this book, I've noticed patterns in the way apps are developed. Candy crush and other similar game apps are a bit obvious, but for me the most sticking one for me is the facebook app. They introduced a few years back these emoji that flash in the screen when you received a hearth or a smiley face in the chat. This is almost a direct copy of a technique used by the gambling industry where they flash coins in the screen of a gambling machine. In the book, I believed they explained that by making positive results / feeling of result stronger, you can trigger more deep rooted habits.
• dqpb 4y ago
  > It feels like they are making a real attempt to take my agency away Have kids. They will claim your agency for themselves, and you’ll have none left for TikTok.
  • lghh 4y ago
    I do have kids.
• nyadesu 4y ago
  The fact both Youtube and Instagram are now displaying short-form videos within their apps only makes it worse. I know it's hard to fight against it but focus on something else more worthy of your time.
• amerkhalid 4y ago
  As an ex-smoker, I never felt any anger towards cigarette companies. Only anger I felt was towards government regulations like banning smoking indoors or high taxes on cigarettes. Also felt a bit annoyed with society judging the smokers. Even when I was trying to quit, I didn't blame cigarette companies. Now in retrospect, I am glad that those regulations, taxes, and judgmental stares slowly nudged me towards quitting. My guess is that the most TikTok/social-media users don't realize that they are addicts. EDIT: And yes TikTok is indeed extremely good at giving you dopamine hits. I don't keep the app on my phone but every once in a while if I am extremely bored or feeling very low, I will download it. It makes time go by so fast.
  • HellDunkel 4y ago
    I cannot imagine tiktok doing anything good for me given how much instagram videos bore the hell out of me. What is it exactly that gives you a „kick“?
    • amerkhalid 4y ago
      For me, Tiktok somehow shows videos that are just “right”. Maybe it is length of videos and ux. I skip anything boring in first 2-3 seconds and probably that’s how other people use it too. So creators have to make their videos entertaining from the first second. And also videos somehow are relevant to current situation in my life. For example, if I have a tight deadline at work, Tiktok will show me videos related to work, productivity, mocking deadlines, etc. Not sure if it is just the numbers game since you can go through 10s of videos in a few minutes. And you just remember videos that were right or if their algorithm is really that good.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • smoldesu 4y ago
    Perhaps the real culprits are the digital "gas stations" that make money hand-over-fist with TikTok's engagement loop. Apple, Google, and to an extent, Microsoft are all complicit in letting people make addictive experiences that promote their respective platforms. Much like the gas station, the smartphone is ubiquitous. Everyone passes by the TikTok aisle on their way to texting their mom or Googling a pie recipe, rich or poor. Worse yet, the guilt they feel for their addiction causes people to hide it. Nobody wants to address it, they just want to scroll their For You Page, enveloped in the comfort of homogeneous content. I normally don't glean empathy from people who make bad choices, but social media just makes me sad. I think, ultimately, the only solution will be stripping platform owners of their power. Google and Apple have both undeniably abused their market position to promote harmful content and shelter the problems that TikTok causes. We'll either die in the shackles of our own corporations, or live long enough to watch them topple over.
• Permit 4y ago
  > I have ADHD. TikTok is almost certainly designed in a way to directly exploit that fact. Can you share any evidence that TikTok was designed to exploit people with ADHD? Where do you get such confidence for this claim?
  • Bayko 4y ago
    I have metric shit tons of ADHD. All social media will match on to you easily. I don't think TikTok was designed specifically to target us as much as it was geared to target everyone. It's just we fall easily. Most ADHD people have addictive personalities.
    • Permit 4y ago
      This is what I would have expected as well so it was surprising to hear otherwise. I thought perhaps the OP had seen leaked documents or some other form of evidence that indicated TikTok targeted people with ADHD deliberately.
      • lghh 4y ago
        You're being intentionally rude. You know I don't have that. You know I was not implying that I had that.
        • Permit 4y ago
          ? I'm not being intentionally rude. I'm trying to understand your comment. TikTok was previously discovered to be reading your phone's clipboard on every keystroke: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/tiktok-seems-to-be-copying-and-pasting-your-clipboard-with-every-keystroke/ https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/tiktok-seems-to-b... Your claim that TikTok deliberately targeted users with ADHD would be consistent with some of TikTok's previous behavior but I wanted to better understand what evidence you had for it. You stated that TikTok was _almost certainly_ designed to _directly_ exploit the fact that you ADHD. I realize now that you meant something less direct but please re-read your comment and understand why someone might come to the same conclusion I did.
• _fat_santa 4y ago
  TikTok is an interesting case because on the one hand they have some fantastic content, cooking videos, explainers, etc. On the other hand how that content is delivered is absolute garbage (from the POV of sucking out attention).
  • lghh 4y ago
    Yeah, I wish I could use it. I have friends who send me cool/interesting stuff. Part of it having that stuff is the reason it's so addicting. I get in a loop of "maybe the next video is The One". That's why short form, title-less videos are such an addicting thing to consume. Especially when you can't see the next until you're playing it and by the time you've played it, the video is over.
• dislikedtom 4y ago
  I find it hard to try to blame the cigarette (or any) companies in a world where maximizing money is encouraged. Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm not trying to justify anything, but there would be another tiktok instantly exploiting the opportunity if tiktok would vanish.
  • lghh 4y ago
    I do, in fact, hate the player for doing something bad or evil. The game exists because there are players willing and wanting to play.
    • dislikedtom 4y ago
      Does it help? Would it maybe be more useful to focus on the people that run the game, and try to make them change the game by changing rules?
      • SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        I'm perfectly happy blaming people for doing immoral things even though they are legal. "I'm doing it unless someone stops me" is not a mark of morality.
      • lghh 4y ago
        I can do both. Hate isn't finite.
• wzdd 4y ago
  I understand that having ADHD would make this more diffcult, but I have found it helpful to use the feature on my phone (iOS, but presumably Android has similar) which limits the total amount of time I can use a particular app every day. When the time limit is up, I can still keep using the app if I want to, but often that is a sufficient reminder ("I've already been using this app for an hour?!") that I can stop. I appreciate this feature because I can enjoy the app but also still feel in control of my time.
• dixie_land 4y ago
  the Chinese actually call it "spiritual opium". the CCP probably see it as some sort of poetic revenge for the real opium trade and the ensuing Sino-British war that they see as the start of the "century of humiliation"
  • philwelch 4y ago
    They also manufacture most of the precursors for fentanyl, so it's not like the poetic revenge stops at TikTok.
    • ROTMetro 4y ago
      Precurses? They make and market new analogs to pass importation on Alibaba (though they don't pass the Analog act so don't get any ideas it's legal).
• rapind 4y ago
  > Is this how gambling addicts feel about casinos? Or how smokers feel about cigarette companies? More like how gamers feel about modern games. Just gotta swipe…
• forsythe_ 4y ago
  I left Facebook/Twitter years ago for this reason and then got an ADHD diagnosis shortly after. So yeah, I can relate. I've never downloaded TikTok but I subscribe to two users via my RSS reader, which at least provides insulation from being subject to their algorithm and endless video feeds. That could be a good half-way solution for you. Nowadays my main vice is Reddit with the occasional YouTube binge. I find I *can* manage using both in moderation but it's a slippery slope. It's even harder if I don't have a healthy outlet to focus on instead, like an interesting project, hobby, or class. But honestly, complete avoidance of those platforms paired with really good internet hygiene ("digital minimalism") are only consistent solutions for me.
• marcosdumay 4y ago
  > I feel like I am intentionally being taken advantage of by TikTok. Well, you are. That's true for all of the "attention economy".
• bastardoperator 4y ago
  I wouldn't take it personal. The reality is we all have much shorter attention spans with or without an ADHD diagnosis. Tiktok as of last year had 1 billion active accounts which means a lot of people like or even prefer content in smaller chunks.
• izzylan 4y ago
  I also have ADHD and I made the mistake of downloading TikTok once. It ended up costing me a lot of time, money, and a significant chunk of my attention span. It became so bad that I couldn't focus at work because all I could think about was TikTok. I uninstalled it and haven't looked back. I don't feel angry at the company, but I do feel exploited and preyed on. Makes me worried about the kids that use this app and have even less self-control than I do.
  • Ruthalas 4y ago
    What is your thought process about it that allows you to feel exploited and preyed upon, but not feel upset at the group that profited off exploiting you? I mean that genuinely. I feel like I'd be upset in your shoes. Are you looking at it differently somehow?
• nostromo 4y ago
  Similar to how the vast majority of people can enjoy alcohol responsibly, most people can and do enjoy social media responsibly. I like to enjoy a nice beer after a hard day's work. Sometimes I also like to enjoy TikTok for a bit to get my mind off of work and other challenges. Neither company should feel bad about providing a great product that people enjoy just because some folks have a problem enjoying it in moderation.