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I'm originally from Bosnia / Ex-Yugoslavia. Experienced hyperinflation, experienced civil war, experienced buying bread with 200,000 dinars one year and 2,000,

I'm originally from Bosnia / Ex-Yugoslavia. Experienced hyperinflation, experienced civil war, experienced buying bread with 200,000 dinars one year and 2,000,000 next year etc. Experienced scary people with guns knocking at your door. My family and their ancestors all lost all their money and possessions numerous times over the last 100 years, including in the mid-90's. And yet, I feel it's the people IN position of Western privilege, who have NOT experienced actual 'dystopian future', and what a hostile government actually CAN do, and what living under duress is ACTUALLY like, who think Crypto will somehow solve such problems based on their theoretical envisioning of only a specific part of dystopian future. I still believe Crypto, like anything else, survives at the mercy of your local government. It has a tremendous set of requirements, complexity, and telltale signs, to be helpful against hostile government which can and will knock at your door with a gun, or criminalize all crypto use/mining/exchange, etc.

tablespoon 4y ago
I think you're exactly right. Cryptocurrency is built for a dystopian future where the people have access to stable, unmonitored internet (in other words, a contradictory situation that will almost certainly never exist). If the dystopian country retains the technical capacity for widespread internet, the dystopian government will have the ability to detect and crack down hard on cryptocurrency users (if they're worth the trouble). If the dystopian government lacks the ability to crack down like that, the dystopian country has almost certainly lost the technical capacity for widespread internet, making cryptocurrency moot. And in all cases, there are better alternatives to whatever problem cryptocurrency is meant to solve (e.g. gold bullion, US dollars), except in some very narrow cases.
colordrops 4y ago
Your story is an anecdote, and an interesting one, but not sure if your conclusions are valid. Crypto is used in China for subverting government oversight, and they are far more advanced than Bosnia at digital control.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  Not always oversight, but for subverting government controls — note that these are very different.
  - colordrops 4y ago
    What's the difference?
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  Absolutely and fair point: My story is indeed an anecdote; but it was not strictly meant to address the question of whether Crypto is useful or not in escaping government oversight, but the specific hypothesis in the post I replied to: "Those who haven't personally experienced #1 (such as world superpowers, the wealthy/"elite") seem not to be able to grasp the benefits. " As such, I wanted to provide a counter-point/perspective, anecdotal as it may be.
- soco 4y ago
  And what do you think, they are successful because the crypto schemes are so powerful, or because the CCP is letting them go with it?
JeremyNT 4y ago
I haven't lived in such a place but this is always how I think of it. The tech is the easy part. If you're conducting illicit transactions in some kind of attempt to dodge regulations - however your (potentially) corrupt regime defines "illicit" and whether the "regulations" are just - then obfuscation isn't going to help you for very long. The ability to use the internet at all is a function of the willingness of the people in charge of a government to 1) allow usage of the Internet by anybody and 2) the willingness of the people in charge to allow you in particular to use the Internet.
imtringued 4y ago
Every time I am running a mental simulation about using a different currency as medium of exchange I come to the conclusion that the moment the government bans the currency, your network of people who will openly admit to accepting the currency will shrink to nothing. Yes you can't enforce the law on the Blockchain but you can still enforce the law in the physical store.
olalonde 4y ago
> And yet, I feel it's the people IN position of Western privilege, who have NOT experienced actual 'dystopian future', and what a hostile government actually CAN do, and what living under duress is ACTUALLY like A lot of the arguments in this thread could apply to free speech as well. Pretty scary how many HNers feel that way.

tablespoon 4y ago

I think you're exactly right. Cryptocurrency is built for a dystopian future where the people have access to stable, unmonitored internet (in other words, a contradictory situation that will almost certainly never exist). If the dystopian country retains the technical capacity for widespread internet, the dystopian government will have the ability to detect and crack down hard on cryptocurrency users (if they're worth the trouble). If the dystopian government lacks the ability to crack down like that, the dystopian country has almost certainly lost the technical capacity for widespread internet, making cryptocurrency moot. And in all cases, there are better alternatives to whatever problem cryptocurrency is meant to solve (e.g. gold bullion, US dollars), except in some very narrow cases.

colordrops 4y ago

Your story is an anecdote, and an interesting one, but not sure if your conclusions are valid. Crypto is used in China for subverting government oversight, and they are far more advanced than Bosnia at digital control.

aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
Not always oversight, but for subverting government controls — note that these are very different.
- colordrops 4y ago
  What's the difference?
NikolaNovak 4y ago
Absolutely and fair point: My story is indeed an anecdote; but it was not strictly meant to address the question of whether Crypto is useful or not in escaping government oversight, but the specific hypothesis in the post I replied to: "Those who haven't personally experienced #1 (such as world superpowers, the wealthy/"elite") seem not to be able to grasp the benefits. " As such, I wanted to provide a counter-point/perspective, anecdotal as it may be.
soco 4y ago
And what do you think, they are successful because the crypto schemes are so powerful, or because the CCP is letting them go with it?

JeremyNT 4y ago

I haven't lived in such a place but this is always how I think of it. The tech is the easy part. If you're conducting illicit transactions in some kind of attempt to dodge regulations - however your (potentially) corrupt regime defines "illicit" and whether the "regulations" are just - then obfuscation isn't going to help you for very long. The ability to use the internet at all is a function of the willingness of the people in charge of a government to 1) allow usage of the Internet by anybody and 2) the willingness of the people in charge to allow you in particular to use the Internet.

imtringued 4y ago

Every time I am running a mental simulation about using a different currency as medium of exchange I come to the conclusion that the moment the government bans the currency, your network of people who will openly admit to accepting the currency will shrink to nothing. Yes you can't enforce the law on the Blockchain but you can still enforce the law in the physical store.

olalonde 4y ago

> And yet, I feel it's the people IN position of Western privilege, who have NOT experienced actual 'dystopian future', and what a hostile government actually CAN do, and what living under duress is ACTUALLY like A lot of the arguments in this thread could apply to free speech as well. Pretty scary how many HNers feel that way.