6 ms·

If your goal is equal opportunity you can look at socioeconomic class without considering race. Fundamentally the idea that race must be considered to achieve d

• scythe 4y ago
  It should be noted that neither class nor race is a reindeer-style glowing red nose. There's an recent trend in England of people faking lower-class roots to take advantage of targeted programs, and there are indicators that white Americans are pretending Native ancestry for college admission.
  • buscoquadnary 4y ago
    I can imagine the political cartoon right now, a school administrator boasting that 98% of the student body is from a minority group, to a room full of white male students who lied about their ethnicity on the college admission process.
  • aceHN 4y ago
    People will try to game the system any number of ways, from faking scores to faking backgrounds. You don't say your criteria are broken b/c people are cheating - that's affirming the consequent
  • treeman79 4y ago
    https://www.vox.com/2018/10/16/17983250/elizabeth-warren-bar-application-american-indian-dna https://www.vox.com/2018/10/16/17983250/elizabeth-warren-bar...
  • zo1 4y ago
    Ignore that background too then. Just use parental or individual income and have some sort of scale, done. This isn't rocket science and the fact that we have to argue about blatantly obvious racism and favoritism just shows how much we've been gas-lighted, and we've had our good intentions twisted and actively exploited by those that benefit from this. Many years from now, we will be holding these black people accountable for the generational harm and un-earned benefits they've stolen from our current generation's youth.
    • tomrod 4y ago
      > Many years from now, we will be holding these black people accountable for the generational harm and un-earned benefits they've stolen from our current generation's youth. This is a pretty extreme assertion.
• UncleMeat 4y ago
  Yet when people look at precisely this (class rather than race) they are still called "enemies of excellence" and racist against asian people and sued to high heaven (see the ongoing challenges for the TJHSST admissions changes).
• MSFT_Edging 4y ago
  In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. It's not a 100% indicator, but its essentially what the quoteunquote CRT in schools was meant to show. Many black communities are not poor simply because they're poor, but of on-the-books policies of redlining, discrimination, and overpolicing that enabled a wealth gap to form in the post-war period. Many white families were able to buy houses, build generational wealth, etc while many black communities were prevented from buying homes, getting loans, all the way to their neighborhoods being wholesale demolished for highways, malls, power plants, etc. Being colorblind has the byproduct of ignoring real material policies and historic events that contribute to modern conditions. It is a fact that generational wealth enables rich students to afford SAT prep classes, have parents that can take them to extra curricular activities, and have the ability to not need a job during their teenage years. Race-based affirmative action is meant to equal out these factors to an extent. Whether it works as intended is another matter. Cases of "Working hard" and "picking yourself up by the bootstraps" is statistically negligible in the grand scheme.
  • nailer 4y ago
    > In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. Great! So looking at socioeconomic status will also address socioeconomic status caused by racial discrimination. Glad you understand and agree with the parent.
    • tomrod 4y ago
      How do you identify socioeconomic class? Tax returns? Paystubs? Accounting for wealth generally? Wealthy folks typically don't make a large wage, they receive a dividend on investments and large loans against collateral. Note that this is critical to consider if we are to discriminate based on socioeconomic class.
      • yucky 4y ago
        >How do you identify socioeconomic class? How do you identify race? After all, it's just a social construct. We're not DNA testing and doing the one-drop rule are we? Its' self-reported. At least with socioeconomics we can look at household income and tax returns.
• hotpotamus 4y ago
  > you don't believe some races will get in without help. What if they didn't? What if the Supreme Court decision results in zero (or near zero) black people being admitted into Ivy League schools?
  • SpicyLemonZest 4y ago
    Then I would say the Ivy League is doing something very wrong. When California and Washington passed ballot initiatives prohibiting race-conscious admissions, demographics shifted a bit but black admissions were nowhere near zero.
    • hotpotamus 4y ago
      Is that to say the California and Washington schools now have the appropriate demographics? I'm curious to know what those numbers are.
      • apress 4y ago
        In CA at least, there is a large gap: Despite those changes and others, the proportion of freshmen from underrepresented racial groups, including Blacks, Latinos and women, attending the UC campuses, averaged 20% before Prop 209, then dropped to 15% in 1998, then slowly increased over the next 20 years, reaching a peak of 37% in 2016, according to the system. However, the percentage of underrepresented students graduating from high school had doubled to over 56% by 2016. Source: https://edsource.org/2020/students-at-californias-top-tier-universities-dont-reflect-states-racial-and-ethnic-diversity-says-urban-institute-study/635332 https://edsource.org/2020/students-at-californias-top-tier-u...
        • michtzik 4y ago
          I know you are quoting from your source, but this blew my mind: > underrepresented racial groups, including Blacks, Latinos and women Women are not an underrepresented racial group, and in fact make up the majority of students at the University of California. https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-center/fall-enrollment-glance https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/about-us/information-...
• Aunche 4y ago
  The problem is that the wealthy and powerful can fake socioeconomic class. In fact, they already do for financial aid. I recall two of my classmates got accepted by Harvard. One was the son of a doctor, and the other was the daughter of a lawyer. The doctor's son said that he was turning down Harvard because they didn't give any financial aid. Meanwhile, the lawyer's daughter said she actually got a lot of financial aid from Harvard even though her family was much richer.
  • itsoktocry 4y ago
    >In fact, they already do for financial aid. I recall two of my classmates got accepted by Harvard. So you could figure out the financial circumstances of these classmates, but Harvard couldn't? Or are you saying they outright committed fraud?
    • Aunche 4y ago
      I don't think it was fraud so much as loopholes. I'm not sure how she did it, but a common strategy is for give custody of the child to a grandparent, who on paper is poor and has 0 income.
• nailer 4y ago
  Yep. A middle class black American doesn't deserve a handout more than a working class Ukrainian kid with cleaners for parents.