4 ms·

You can't give one racial group a disadvantage (Asians) to give another one an advantage. The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind.

ramesh31 4y ago
>The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind. Asian immigrants are not struggling to escape the clutches of centuries old intergenerational poverty. It's not even remotely the same thing.
- golemotron 4y ago
  I've spent a lot of time in Asia. For most of the continent, there's no history of anything else but poverty.
- sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
  It depends on which groups you are looking at. For example, many Vietnam/Laos groups which immigrated during the war.
- wyager 4y ago
  You are suffering from the same optimistic delusion that the Supreme Court suffered from in Grutter v. Bollinger (2003): > In her majority opinion, O'Connor wrote that "race-conscious admissions policies must be limited in time," adding that the "Court expects that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the interest approved today." AA will not permit anyone to escape intergenerational poverty. By the numbers, it hasn't done anything to combat it.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    So, even if it did work, the SC expected it to be dropped by 2028? "But it doesn't work, so we should keep doing it forever!" seems to be the colleges' position.
- beachtaxidriver 4y ago
  But... They are. At least the newly arrived ones are.
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  Man do I have news for you about the level in East Asia until ~30 years ago
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  Many Asians are dealing with intergenerational poverty including multi-century. Much of the discrimination before the 1900s were in other countries, but Asians have frequently faced discrimination. In the US there has been discrimination for over 100 years. Please stop justifying racism.
- bogantech 4y ago
  > Asian immigrants are not struggling to escape the clutches of centuries old intergenerational poverty. It's not even remotely the same thing. Asian immigrants are escaping intergenerational poverty that they are suffering from today
- bmj 4y ago
  But I believe plenty of Asians feel the pain of racism, right? And let's not forget about interring Japanese-Americans during World War II. Sure, the Japanese experience in the United States didn't begin with slavery, but let's not assume they do not suffer the effects of racism.
- rndgermandude 4y ago
  I am pretty sure a lot do. First, a lot of immigrants came to pursue the "American Dream", trying to break free from poverty, or oppression, or both. Then you have specific instances of Asian people (systematically) being mistreated in the US. Chinese railroad construction workers come to mind, who were basically treated as serfs and whose lives were considered "expendable". People with Japanese origins were put into concentration camps during WW II, along with societal repressions against anybody who "looked" Japanese, on top of the general racist stance of the time. Asian-Americans were effectively as segregated as Black Americans for a long long time. While the Asian-American population might not have experienced slave-labor to the same degree, Asian-American communities certainly were for a long time pushed to the edges of society, usually even physically segregated, systematically and ideologically denied access to upwards social mobility, and so on.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > Asian immigrants are not struggling to escape the clutches of centuries old intergenerational poverty The children of people we put in concentration camps or accepted as refugees from e.g. the Khmer Rouge should be punished so the daughter of a hedge fund manager can get into a university named after an executive of the British East India Company? Give me a break.
colinmhayes 4y ago
Why not? While Asian immigrants certainly face discrimination they have also certainly experienced much less than black Americans have over the last 300 years.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  > Why not? Probably because judging people their race makes you no better than those that judged people on their race.
- macspoofing 4y ago
  >Why not? While Asian immigrants certainly face discrimination they have also certainly experienced much less than black Americans have over the last 300 years. Well .. you have to be careful when talking about groups, because at the individual level it's not clear that this is true. In fact, it isn't true. For example, Ilhan Omar, a Congresswoman from Minnesota, is a black American. Her ancestors didn't suffer American discrimination. She was born in Somalia to a well-connected, upper-class Somali family. Her personal experience still had trials and tribulations that was unique to her, but it was different than the experience of other black Americans. Couldn't we give a 'hand-up' to the people that need it by focusing on class, instead of race?
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    I think this is a reasonable argument, but I also see the other side. Having a racial underclass is bad for society. It leads to children of the race subconsciously believing they aren’t capable of achieving their full potential. Empowering black people is a worthy goal in my opinion, even if they’re rich, because the optics can make a big difference in the lives of children who know believe in themself.
    - d_tr 4y ago
      What about empowering all kids that for any reason subconsciously believe they aren’t capable of achieving their full potential instead of focusing on race? As an added bonus, the black kid will then not feel like it needs some kind of special care as opposed to its white mates, because it won't be reminded all the time that it needs special care just because it's a black kid.

ramesh31 4y ago

>The phrase "robbing Peter to pay Paul" comes to mind. Asian immigrants are not struggling to escape the clutches of centuries old intergenerational poverty. It's not even remotely the same thing.

golemotron 4y ago
I've spent a lot of time in Asia. For most of the continent, there's no history of anything else but poverty.
sicp-enjoyer 4y ago
It depends on which groups you are looking at. For example, many Vietnam/Laos groups which immigrated during the war.
wyager 4y ago
You are suffering from the same optimistic delusion that the Supreme Court suffered from in Grutter v. Bollinger (2003): > In her majority opinion, O'Connor wrote that "race-conscious admissions policies must be limited in time," adding that the "Court expects that 25 years from now, the use of racial preferences will no longer be necessary to further the interest approved today." AA will not permit anyone to escape intergenerational poverty. By the numbers, it hasn't done anything to combat it.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  So, even if it did work, the SC expected it to be dropped by 2028? "But it doesn't work, so we should keep doing it forever!" seems to be the colleges' position.
beachtaxidriver 4y ago
But... They are. At least the newly arrived ones are.
throwayyy479087 4y ago
Man do I have news for you about the level in East Asia until ~30 years ago
_-david-_ 4y ago
Many Asians are dealing with intergenerational poverty including multi-century. Much of the discrimination before the 1900s were in other countries, but Asians have frequently faced discrimination. In the US there has been discrimination for over 100 years. Please stop justifying racism.
bogantech 4y ago
> Asian immigrants are not struggling to escape the clutches of centuries old intergenerational poverty. It's not even remotely the same thing. Asian immigrants are escaping intergenerational poverty that they are suffering from today
bmj 4y ago
But I believe plenty of Asians feel the pain of racism, right? And let's not forget about interring Japanese-Americans during World War II. Sure, the Japanese experience in the United States didn't begin with slavery, but let's not assume they do not suffer the effects of racism.
rndgermandude 4y ago
I am pretty sure a lot do. First, a lot of immigrants came to pursue the "American Dream", trying to break free from poverty, or oppression, or both. Then you have specific instances of Asian people (systematically) being mistreated in the US. Chinese railroad construction workers come to mind, who were basically treated as serfs and whose lives were considered "expendable". People with Japanese origins were put into concentration camps during WW II, along with societal repressions against anybody who "looked" Japanese, on top of the general racist stance of the time. Asian-Americans were effectively as segregated as Black Americans for a long long time. While the Asian-American population might not have experienced slave-labor to the same degree, Asian-American communities certainly were for a long time pushed to the edges of society, usually even physically segregated, systematically and ideologically denied access to upwards social mobility, and so on.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Asian immigrants are not struggling to escape the clutches of centuries old intergenerational poverty The children of people we put in concentration camps or accepted as refugees from e.g. the Khmer Rouge should be punished so the daughter of a hedge fund manager can get into a university named after an executive of the British East India Company? Give me a break.

colinmhayes 4y ago

Why not? While Asian immigrants certainly face discrimination they have also certainly experienced much less than black Americans have over the last 300 years.

SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
> Why not? Probably because judging people their race makes you no better than those that judged people on their race.
macspoofing 4y ago
>Why not? While Asian immigrants certainly face discrimination they have also certainly experienced much less than black Americans have over the last 300 years. Well .. you have to be careful when talking about groups, because at the individual level it's not clear that this is true. In fact, it isn't true. For example, Ilhan Omar, a Congresswoman from Minnesota, is a black American. Her ancestors didn't suffer American discrimination. She was born in Somalia to a well-connected, upper-class Somali family. Her personal experience still had trials and tribulations that was unique to her, but it was different than the experience of other black Americans. Couldn't we give a 'hand-up' to the people that need it by focusing on class, instead of race?
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  I think this is a reasonable argument, but I also see the other side. Having a racial underclass is bad for society. It leads to children of the race subconsciously believing they aren’t capable of achieving their full potential. Empowering black people is a worthy goal in my opinion, even if they’re rich, because the optics can make a big difference in the lives of children who know believe in themself.
  - d_tr 4y ago
    What about empowering all kids that for any reason subconsciously believe they aren’t capable of achieving their full potential instead of focusing on race? As an added bonus, the black kid will then not feel like it needs some kind of special care as opposed to its white mates, because it won't be reminded all the time that it needs special care just because it's a black kid.