5 ms·

The founders of Diaspora were in a really unenviable position. They started off with a wave of national press as well as solid financial support from grassroot

by DevX101 15y ago

The founders of Diaspora were in a really unenviable position. They started off with a wave of national press as well as solid financial support from grassroot users. As time went on, it became increasingly clear that they would not be able to accomplish the goal they originally set out to do. They had failed. Publicly. This can be very devastating psychologically to someone who has always 'succeeded' in life. I'm not saying this was the case for Ilya, or had any part in his death, but I know for me it would have been hard to swallow. There are many silent founders out there that gave up everything for an unrealized dream in the path to startup success and it has a real toll on psyches. Best wishes to his family & friends. EDIT: This appears to be a very controversial comment. The vote count seems to be oscillating up and down very rapidly. I don't want to make this out to be a discussion about Diaspora, so I won't comment further on that point. But the mental health of founders is a real issue and rarely discussed. Maybe there should be a more open discussion about this issue.

beatpanda 15y ago
Wow, this strikes me as a really tone-deaf response to this news, especially considering that Diaspora is alive, kicking, and growing.
tamersalama 15y ago
I'm interested to know how they have been perceived as failure. I think this is all very relative, and failure is a strong word. Github still have 1 day old commit and the community is apparently still active.
- click170 15y ago
  Failure in this context likely means "is not attracting large swathes of Facebook users" though frankly I think that's but one measure of the success of a social networking website.
  - hollerith 15y ago
    Well, a social network that is used by only a small fraction of one's friends and potential friends is not very useful.
    - JoshTriplett 15y ago
      Not necessarily. If you can make a federated social network that can interoperate with the networks people already use, people can migrate to it incrementally.
  - thomasgerbe 15y ago
    I suppose it is when the narrative is the next Facebook killer which the media fostered and perpetuated creating some unreasonable expectation for their team.
- josteink 15y ago
  As far as failures come, the only thing I have heard about diaspora are the following things: * Source-code full of freshman's mistakes and security exploits. Basically not-to-be-trusted quality code, released to the public for deployment. * All money invested in the project wasted without anything to show for. * I know absolutely nobody using diaspora, expect one person. * This person attempted to invite me, and diaspora failed to send me the invite email. Now he cannot invite me again. It's a laughing stock. For the parts of the internet which has even heard about it. Which is the minority of the internet. As a social network this is a failure on absolutely every aspect I can find measures for. The goals were admirable, but goals alone wont win you any credit. You have to get there as well. Diaspora didn't and most likely wont.
AznHisoka 15y ago
Not just the aspect of "failing". But also mix in the tough, gruesome aspect of working 12 hours a day with little to no time for social life. And the inability for most people to understand what you're going through. And if you don't got a significant other, it makes it feels like you're all alone in this battle. Not saying this is the case for him, but in the end, we're just cells.. and if we don't receive certain stimuli, science dictates we go crazy.
temphn 15y ago
Very important comment. The biggest risk in doing a startup is not the financial risk per se. It's the psychological risk of knowing you really, really tried -- and still failed. That is the hard part, because everyone goes in with Dilbert/mass media notions of how easy it is to be a CEO or (just as bad) Social Network illusions of how easy it is to grow meteorically while fighting off lawsuits. The truth is that it's not easy, that it takes a special and lucky person. If you fail it's really hard to realize you aren't that special. The possibly healthier (?) way of dealing is to convince yourself that it was bad luck, or the other guy cheated. Then it's not as much of a hit to the ego, to the sense of your own capabilities. But it's hard.
- felipemnoa 15y ago
  >>The possibly healthier (?) way of dealing is to convince yourself that it was bad luck, or the other guy cheated I think it would be healthier to accept that failure is normal and to rather enjoy the road to Ithaca [1]. Life without challenges/failures would be too boring. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_P._Cavafy#Ithaca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_P._Cavafy#Ithaca
  - AznHisoka 15y ago
    it depends on the type of person you are. Sometimes we delude ouselves to protect against the downfall from believing the opposite
  - keeptrying 15y ago
    This is not part of the american cultural narrative and thus will be harder to accept even to your own psyche. Its important to understand how the difference between your own thinking and society's thinking can and will affect your own happiness (usually in a negative way). Its not something many people think about but has very real consequences.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - 15y ago
vladd 15y ago
I imagine it's a difficult situation for the remaining founders, especially for those (if any) that encouraged Ilya to initially participate in their Diaspora team (it would be for me if I were in their shoes). I think it's important to remember in a context like this that failure is part of the plan: entrepreneurs are risk-seekers by definition, and the harder you fail, the more you learn, to such an extent that you could pass with flying colors a regular contributor role at a big software company. In the context of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Kan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Kan , I'd just like people to keep their perspective and not to take the assumed risk for granted by thinking they're a failure.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
thepumpkin1979 15y ago
What are you saying, the stress of the Diaspora project killed him? Did you hear this from a close source or are you just guessing it?
- cma 15y ago
  I'd assume he is implicating suicide
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - billswift 15y ago
    Not necessarily, stress is a risk factor in many, many problems, from illnesses to accidents.
DefinitelyNbdy 15y ago
1. If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. 2. Success is measured in many ways, and one of those ways is dollars. There are many different ways to get dollars. 3. Failure leads to success. 4. Diaspora got GREAT and HIGHLY SUPPORTIVE press about 2 months ago from Free Software Magazine. 5. Diaspora had substantial cash flow shortly after launching the foundation. In fact they got SO MUCH MONEY that PayPal froze their account, probably because they thought it was fraud (fraud detection is REALLY hard and false positives are cheaper than false negatives...this is IMHO the most likely interpretation). On the contrary, Ilya was in a GREAT position. LOTS of people would have given their left testicle to be him. Now, if he couldn't handle the stress, or he had one too many shots of Vodka, that is tragic, but don't try to bring Diaspora down with him. The facts are not on your side. tl;dr It is WAAAAY too early to be declaring Diaspora a failure.
- einhverfr 15y ago
  "3. Failure leads to success." This is one of the great overlooked points.
motters 15y ago
Actually I don't believe that Diaspora failed. The fact that I'm using it on a daily basis, and not using Facebook, is pretty much a win as far as I'm concerned. Diaspora still has some way to go, but it's usable.
- thomasgerbe 15y ago
  I have a hard time seeing Diaspora overtaking Facebook or G+ for that matter, especially with the former becoming more entrenched with site authentication. Certainly, success is subjective but I think the expectations for Diaspora was to be a legit alternative to Facebook and now G+. And while it is an alternative, it's not popular enough for most people to switch over. Furthermore, Diaspora got widely criticized with regards to their funding and subsequent releases... specifically people expecting much more for the amount of investment.
  - jacquesm 15y ago
    It doesn't have to overtake either to be a success.
    - ErrantX 15y ago
      And in fact; given that both G+ and FB now have features (particularly privacy features) inspired by Diaspora suggests success to their original goals.
billpatrianakos 15y ago
Yes, the mental health of founders is something that should be discussed more. I do see a fair amount of articles that approach the subject but maybe not intensely enough. Burnout is one thing but serious depression is another altogether. The pressure of starting a small local business is enough to drive a person mad. Just think about the guys being covered in TC, the widely known ones, the "stars" of the tech startup world. We all like to think they're superhuman and can conquer anything. We all like to think they're living large and wish we had what they have but really it's all relative. This lime of work (starting a business, startup, whatever you want to call it) is the furthest thing from easy and glamorous as you can get. It's important to have a support network and to take care of yourself especially well when venturing on an endeavor like that. I am insignificant but I can relate. And you know, I bet a many others would echo that sentiment. It's so damn terrible to see someone so young go like that. To imagine what he could've accomplished in the future and how his family, friends, and coworkers are now robbed of a terrific person is so sad it's beyond words. And make no mistake, we don't have to know someone to know they're great people. We're all great people. If you have just one relationship with a single person in your life then you're special and wonderful in someone else's eyes and you qualify as being great. I didn't know the guy, barely knew of him, but it sucks to see such a great person go.

by DevX101 15y ago

beatpanda 15y ago

Wow, this strikes me as a really tone-deaf response to this news, especially considering that Diaspora is alive, kicking, and growing.

tamersalama 15y ago

I'm interested to know how they have been perceived as failure. I think this is all very relative, and failure is a strong word. Github still have 1 day old commit and the community is apparently still active.

click170 15y ago
Failure in this context likely means "is not attracting large swathes of Facebook users" though frankly I think that's but one measure of the success of a social networking website.
- hollerith 15y ago
  Well, a social network that is used by only a small fraction of one's friends and potential friends is not very useful.
  - JoshTriplett 15y ago
    Not necessarily. If you can make a federated social network that can interoperate with the networks people already use, people can migrate to it incrementally.
- thomasgerbe 15y ago
  I suppose it is when the narrative is the next Facebook killer which the media fostered and perpetuated creating some unreasonable expectation for their team.
josteink 15y ago
As far as failures come, the only thing I have heard about diaspora are the following things: * Source-code full of freshman's mistakes and security exploits. Basically not-to-be-trusted quality code, released to the public for deployment. * All money invested in the project wasted without anything to show for. * I know absolutely nobody using diaspora, expect one person. * This person attempted to invite me, and diaspora failed to send me the invite email. Now he cannot invite me again. It's a laughing stock. For the parts of the internet which has even heard about it. Which is the minority of the internet. As a social network this is a failure on absolutely every aspect I can find measures for. The goals were admirable, but goals alone wont win you any credit. You have to get there as well. Diaspora didn't and most likely wont.

AznHisoka 15y ago

Not just the aspect of "failing". But also mix in the tough, gruesome aspect of working 12 hours a day with little to no time for social life. And the inability for most people to understand what you're going through. And if you don't got a significant other, it makes it feels like you're all alone in this battle. Not saying this is the case for him, but in the end, we're just cells.. and if we don't receive certain stimuli, science dictates we go crazy.

temphn 15y ago

Very important comment. The biggest risk in doing a startup is not the financial risk per se. It's the psychological risk of knowing you really, really tried -- and still failed. That is the hard part, because everyone goes in with Dilbert/mass media notions of how easy it is to be a CEO or (just as bad) Social Network illusions of how easy it is to grow meteorically while fighting off lawsuits. The truth is that it's not easy, that it takes a special and lucky person. If you fail it's really hard to realize you aren't that special. The possibly healthier (?) way of dealing is to convince yourself that it was bad luck, or the other guy cheated. Then it's not as much of a hit to the ego, to the sense of your own capabilities. But it's hard.

felipemnoa 15y ago
>>The possibly healthier (?) way of dealing is to convince yourself that it was bad luck, or the other guy cheated I think it would be healthier to accept that failure is normal and to rather enjoy the road to Ithaca [1]. Life without challenges/failures would be too boring. [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_P._Cavafy#Ithaca http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_P._Cavafy#Ithaca
- AznHisoka 15y ago
  it depends on the type of person you are. Sometimes we delude ouselves to protect against the downfall from believing the opposite
- keeptrying 15y ago
  This is not part of the american cultural narrative and thus will be harder to accept even to your own psyche. Its important to understand how the difference between your own thinking and society's thinking can and will affect your own happiness (usually in a negative way). Its not something many people think about but has very real consequences.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - 15y ago

vladd 15y ago

I imagine it's a difficult situation for the remaining founders, especially for those (if any) that encouraged Ilya to initially participate in their Diaspora team (it would be for me if I were in their shoes). I think it's important to remember in a context like this that failure is part of the plan: entrepreneurs are risk-seekers by definition, and the harder you fail, the more you learn, to such an extent that you could pass with flying colors a regular contributor role at a big software company. In the context of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Kan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Kan , I'd just like people to keep their perspective and not to take the assumed risk for granted by thinking they're a failure.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

thepumpkin1979 15y ago

What are you saying, the stress of the Diaspora project killed him? Did you hear this from a close source or are you just guessing it?

cma 15y ago
I'd assume he is implicating suicide
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- billswift 15y ago
  Not necessarily, stress is a risk factor in many, many problems, from illnesses to accidents.

DefinitelyNbdy 15y ago

1. If at first you don't succeed, redefine success. 2. Success is measured in many ways, and one of those ways is dollars. There are many different ways to get dollars. 3. Failure leads to success. 4. Diaspora got GREAT and HIGHLY SUPPORTIVE press about 2 months ago from Free Software Magazine. 5. Diaspora had substantial cash flow shortly after launching the foundation. In fact they got SO MUCH MONEY that PayPal froze their account, probably because they thought it was fraud (fraud detection is REALLY hard and false positives are cheaper than false negatives...this is IMHO the most likely interpretation). On the contrary, Ilya was in a GREAT position. LOTS of people would have given their left testicle to be him. Now, if he couldn't handle the stress, or he had one too many shots of Vodka, that is tragic, but don't try to bring Diaspora down with him. The facts are not on your side. tl;dr It is WAAAAY too early to be declaring Diaspora a failure.

einhverfr 15y ago
"3. Failure leads to success." This is one of the great overlooked points.

motters 15y ago

Actually I don't believe that Diaspora failed. The fact that I'm using it on a daily basis, and not using Facebook, is pretty much a win as far as I'm concerned. Diaspora still has some way to go, but it's usable.

thomasgerbe 15y ago
I have a hard time seeing Diaspora overtaking Facebook or G+ for that matter, especially with the former becoming more entrenched with site authentication. Certainly, success is subjective but I think the expectations for Diaspora was to be a legit alternative to Facebook and now G+. And while it is an alternative, it's not popular enough for most people to switch over. Furthermore, Diaspora got widely criticized with regards to their funding and subsequent releases... specifically people expecting much more for the amount of investment.
- jacquesm 15y ago
  It doesn't have to overtake either to be a success.
  - ErrantX 15y ago
    And in fact; given that both G+ and FB now have features (particularly privacy features) inspired by Diaspora suggests success to their original goals.

billpatrianakos 15y ago

Yes, the mental health of founders is something that should be discussed more. I do see a fair amount of articles that approach the subject but maybe not intensely enough. Burnout is one thing but serious depression is another altogether. The pressure of starting a small local business is enough to drive a person mad. Just think about the guys being covered in TC, the widely known ones, the "stars" of the tech startup world. We all like to think they're superhuman and can conquer anything. We all like to think they're living large and wish we had what they have but really it's all relative. This lime of work (starting a business, startup, whatever you want to call it) is the furthest thing from easy and glamorous as you can get. It's important to have a support network and to take care of yourself especially well when venturing on an endeavor like that. I am insignificant but I can relate. And you know, I bet a many others would echo that sentiment. It's so damn terrible to see someone so young go like that. To imagine what he could've accomplished in the future and how his family, friends, and coworkers are now robbed of a terrific person is so sad it's beyond words. And make no mistake, we don't have to know someone to know they're great people. We're all great people. If you have just one relationship with a single person in your life then you're special and wonderful in someone else's eyes and you qualify as being great. I didn't know the guy, barely knew of him, but it sucks to see such a great person go.