6 ms·

I get that Formula E isn't a spec series, but it is weird that so much of it is homologated spec parts. Given that the racing isn't that great (maybe entertaini

by rozap 4y ago

I get that Formula E isn't a spec series, but it is weird that so much of it is homologated spec parts. Given that the racing isn't that great (maybe entertaining, clumsy, or wacky would be descriptors of FE), imo it'd really make sense to fully lean in on the technological progress goal. In 10 years they'd have one hell of a series. If you think about all the progress that was made during the group B and early formula 1 days and look at the regulations that were in play at the time, it seems like opening up the regulations in Formula E would make a lot of sense.

ben-schaaf 4y ago
I don't see how you could convince manufacturers to spend way more money on it, especially in the early days when it's not that popular.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  Wouldn't the year over year advancement and chaotic competition make it a little more exciting and thus popular?
  - bagels 4y ago
    Would it make it popular enough that the manufacturers would want to participate in an escalating war of money?
    - KennyBlanken 4y ago
      > escalating war of money You mean like literally any other form of automotive racing? The advantage here is that all that R&D would push for more powerful, lightweight, efficient EV powertrains instead of going into a dead, and largely "solved", problem of ICEs.
    - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
      Then don't participate? I don't understand the crab-bucket mentality of setting limits in that context.
- ggm 4y ago
  Its a dichotomy: if you were allowed free-reign, you'd get innovation and arguably both sides (price and performance) as people went off-piste for parts. You'd also get loss of safety margins, and therefore increased risk and insurance costs on the organisers and teams. And in the end, it would come back to price of tech wins, once driver effects are discounted. Some cheap parts are surprisingly good. The assumption you only increase cost by mandating but automatically get "the best" might be undermined. What if there was a sudden surge of surplus high-Q magnets, and your home-made motor had significantly higher torque, for less weight, and a novel wheel mounting? Getting that kind of thing rated would be a 5+ year exercise in some cases. (I don't follow F1 in any form, but I remember a lot of nonsense around the time ground effect skirts first came on the scene, and again with winglets, and complaints about driver safety effects on speed...)
- etempleton 4y ago
  Yeah, the problem would be the cost. If F1 ever goes all electric you would see this. I suspect Formula E is the test bed to see how close we are getting to viability with electric cars while preserving the F1 format.
- nradov 4y ago
  Institute a team spending cap.
- rozap 4y ago
  I think there has been a lot of value in FE as a technological driver and from a PR perspective. VW/Audi/Porsche committed to it pretty early on, even after repeating forever that they weren't interested in Formula 1 (which of course changed this year...). Motorsport is a great way to attract talent and drive innovation, but has always been super risky in terms of straight money in/money out. That's why they say, "You know how to make a small fortune in motorsport? Start out with a large one".
Klonoar 4y ago
>maybe entertaining, clumsy, or wacky would be descriptors of FE "chaotic" is what I'd call it. Something about the presentation and the way they try so hard to focus on the UI/UX being "electric" and fast-paced means that there's an onslaught of motions on the screen for what's not generally amazing racing to begin with.
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > "chaotic" is what I'd call it. Something about the presentation and the way they try so hard to focus on the UI/UX being "electric" and fast-paced means that there's an onslaught of motions on the screen for what's not generally amazing racing to begin with. I occasionally watch highlights of FE from time to time [0] to see how the spectacle side of thing have developed, and whether it's stuff like fan boost or attack zone it all makes it feel like a video game from the 90s. Kind of like F-Zero, to be honest. I think the technology development in EV and battery tech alone is worth it, and more OEMs should invest if only to retain brand awareness rather than a TV or Internet ad that no one will ever watch, but I agree the racing is... mediocre. I don't think it's just because it's mainly F1 'flunkies' but it's more than the racing itself hasn't really found what it wants to be and is really trying to appeal to those whose only racing exposure is from video games rather than club or grass roots racing as it was for the last century. They're approaching an E-sports business model within motorsports, which is odd but lucrative if they can crack the nut. By contrast Moto-E is actually an incredibly fun watch; the races are much shorter than the ICE but doesn't have any non-sense so as a result riders can just go flat out with out holding anything back which results in a Super Pole race using bikes with full torque at 0 RPM and it's very close [1]. nd has an entirely separate E-sports division which ultimately makes DORNA have sold out races, COVID notwithstanding, and more viewers than ever. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4beCE_OI7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4beCE_OI7k 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytbSDFgG8CI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytbSDFgG8CI
  - rozap 4y ago
    Yea, I would love it if FE cut the crap and made it "purer". I think that would help the racing and convince people that it's not a joke. There's no reason the racing can't be good.

by rozap 4y ago

ben-schaaf 4y ago

I don't see how you could convince manufacturers to spend way more money on it, especially in the early days when it's not that popular.

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
Wouldn't the year over year advancement and chaotic competition make it a little more exciting and thus popular?
- bagels 4y ago
  Would it make it popular enough that the manufacturers would want to participate in an escalating war of money?
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    > escalating war of money You mean like literally any other form of automotive racing? The advantage here is that all that R&D would push for more powerful, lightweight, efficient EV powertrains instead of going into a dead, and largely "solved", problem of ICEs.
  - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    Then don't participate? I don't understand the crab-bucket mentality of setting limits in that context.
ggm 4y ago
Its a dichotomy: if you were allowed free-reign, you'd get innovation and arguably both sides (price and performance) as people went off-piste for parts. You'd also get loss of safety margins, and therefore increased risk and insurance costs on the organisers and teams. And in the end, it would come back to price of tech wins, once driver effects are discounted. Some cheap parts are surprisingly good. The assumption you only increase cost by mandating but automatically get "the best" might be undermined. What if there was a sudden surge of surplus high-Q magnets, and your home-made motor had significantly higher torque, for less weight, and a novel wheel mounting? Getting that kind of thing rated would be a 5+ year exercise in some cases. (I don't follow F1 in any form, but I remember a lot of nonsense around the time ground effect skirts first came on the scene, and again with winglets, and complaints about driver safety effects on speed...)
etempleton 4y ago
Yeah, the problem would be the cost. If F1 ever goes all electric you would see this. I suspect Formula E is the test bed to see how close we are getting to viability with electric cars while preserving the F1 format.
nradov 4y ago
Institute a team spending cap.
rozap 4y ago
I think there has been a lot of value in FE as a technological driver and from a PR perspective. VW/Audi/Porsche committed to it pretty early on, even after repeating forever that they weren't interested in Formula 1 (which of course changed this year...). Motorsport is a great way to attract talent and drive innovation, but has always been super risky in terms of straight money in/money out. That's why they say, "You know how to make a small fortune in motorsport? Start out with a large one".

Klonoar 4y ago

>maybe entertaining, clumsy, or wacky would be descriptors of FE "chaotic" is what I'd call it. Something about the presentation and the way they try so hard to focus on the UI/UX being "electric" and fast-paced means that there's an onslaught of motions on the screen for what's not generally amazing racing to begin with.

Melting_Harps 4y ago
> "chaotic" is what I'd call it. Something about the presentation and the way they try so hard to focus on the UI/UX being "electric" and fast-paced means that there's an onslaught of motions on the screen for what's not generally amazing racing to begin with. I occasionally watch highlights of FE from time to time [0] to see how the spectacle side of thing have developed, and whether it's stuff like fan boost or attack zone it all makes it feel like a video game from the 90s. Kind of like F-Zero, to be honest. I think the technology development in EV and battery tech alone is worth it, and more OEMs should invest if only to retain brand awareness rather than a TV or Internet ad that no one will ever watch, but I agree the racing is... mediocre. I don't think it's just because it's mainly F1 'flunkies' but it's more than the racing itself hasn't really found what it wants to be and is really trying to appeal to those whose only racing exposure is from video games rather than club or grass roots racing as it was for the last century. They're approaching an E-sports business model within motorsports, which is odd but lucrative if they can crack the nut. By contrast Moto-E is actually an incredibly fun watch; the races are much shorter than the ICE but doesn't have any non-sense so as a result riders can just go flat out with out holding anything back which results in a Super Pole race using bikes with full torque at 0 RPM and it's very close [1]. nd has an entirely separate E-sports division which ultimately makes DORNA have sold out races, COVID notwithstanding, and more viewers than ever. 0: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4beCE_OI7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4beCE_OI7k 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytbSDFgG8CI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytbSDFgG8CI
- rozap 4y ago
  Yea, I would love it if FE cut the crap and made it "purer". I think that would help the racing and convince people that it's not a joke. There's no reason the racing can't be good.