5 ms·

I'd rather housing in the US follow Japan's model and depreciate to a value of nothing over 30 years. Why? It'd drive investment into other avenues, keep commo

I'd rather housing in the US follow Japan's model and depreciate to a value of nothing over 30 years. Why? It'd drive investment into other avenues, keep commodities cost low, and get more people into houses. The current housing market is stupid. -A disgruntled millennial who despite great savings can't afford anything

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago
> A disgruntled millennial who despite great savings can't afford anything I’m sorry for your experience. I’m Gen X and can’t imagine how frustrating this must be for you.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  It really makes you wonder how anyone is buying a house when you make 6x the national income and it’s still almost a third of take home to buy.
  - jc_811 4y ago
    As a millennial, I think it’s a dirty/open secret that a large majority of our generation who are able to afford buying are getting help from their boomer parents. It worries me that this is just further driving inequality and creating an even greater separation between haves and have-nots
    - throwaway5959 4y ago
      It definitely is. I’m seeing this as well in the LA area.
endisneigh 4y ago
How much savings do you have? I bet you can afford something. Usually when people say this, in my experience, it means they have some set of arbitrary requirements that aren't being fulfilled. That's fair enough, but you can afford something.
- deathanatos 4y ago
  > Usually when people say this, in my experience, it means they have some set of arbitrary requirements that aren't being fulfilled. The requirement is $/mo is affordable. Technically, yes, savings is irrelevant; as long as I can reach the required down-payment it doesn't much matter. It matters a bit in that, if I make a >traditional down payment, I can in theory, start cutting into the $/mo¹. The in practice problem is that my ROI has been outpaced by the housing market's lunacy, and more recently, there's the problem of inflation. (There's also the other direction, where savings is irrelevant in that you can just ignore the traditional down payment, and like, take PMI or something, but that raises the $/mo problem.) (Part of me is starting to go "well, but what if we just didn't count some of the cost as a cost per-se, I mean, housing is an investment, amirite? and the prices clearly only go up. (Heavy /s on that.)) Now, look at the current economy: inflation is +9% over the last 12 mo, YTD my investments are something like -18% (though of course, probably… things will get back to normal … any day now… — but that means that your time horizon for home purchasing has to be further out than things returning to normal), and IME eng salaries go down¹ until you inevitably change jobs, and tech companies are laying people off right now (so, it means gauging who you think is in deeper trouble: your current employer or your next employer, and boy do employees not get the kind of data or insight to tell that sort of thing — although after 2 years at a place I think one will know, for that company). ¹more or less. Adjustments for promotions might happen, but in my circle of people, we're not seeing meaningful adjustments for inflation or intra-level bumps.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Affordable is actually an interesting metric to take literally. Can it be done vs do I like the price. I spent 5 years struggling to figure out the difference when it came to purchasing a house. Eventually I came to the realization that yes, I can literally afford it. no, I don't like the price. Unfortunately, chances were low I would ever see a price I did like.
  - weeblewobble 4y ago
    > The in practice problem is that my ROI has been outpaced by the housing market's lunacy, and more recently, there's the problem of inflation. What do you mean? Inflation is good for fixed-rate mortgage holders
nabakin 4y ago
It's not Japan's model driving housing costs low. It's the population growth rate.
- dh5 4y ago
  That and the ultra-stagnant economy which in turn leads to mortgage rates of around 1%.
  - atwood22 4y ago
    Low mortgage rates increase prices.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
nradov 4y ago
That's not how it actually works in Japan. Single family houses aren't really built to last, and may depreciate to nothing over 30 years. But the land still has value, and may well be a good investment. People looking at the real estate market sometimes get confused and lump the land together with the improvements, but those are really two totally separate asset classes.
- lazide 4y ago
  Outside of Tokyo, the land is worth almost nothing now.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Sure, and there are also many places in North America where land is worth almost nothing. So it's no different.
foogazi 4y ago
> A disgruntled millennial who despite great savings can't afford anything anywhere ?

TedDoesntTalk 4y ago

> A disgruntled millennial who despite great savings can't afford anything I’m sorry for your experience. I’m Gen X and can’t imagine how frustrating this must be for you.

throwaway5959 4y ago
It really makes you wonder how anyone is buying a house when you make 6x the national income and it’s still almost a third of take home to buy.
- jc_811 4y ago
  As a millennial, I think it’s a dirty/open secret that a large majority of our generation who are able to afford buying are getting help from their boomer parents. It worries me that this is just further driving inequality and creating an even greater separation between haves and have-nots
  - throwaway5959 4y ago
    It definitely is. I’m seeing this as well in the LA area.

endisneigh 4y ago

How much savings do you have? I bet you can afford something. Usually when people say this, in my experience, it means they have some set of arbitrary requirements that aren't being fulfilled. That's fair enough, but you can afford something.

deathanatos 4y ago
> Usually when people say this, in my experience, it means they have some set of arbitrary requirements that aren't being fulfilled. The requirement is $/mo is affordable. Technically, yes, savings is irrelevant; as long as I can reach the required down-payment it doesn't much matter. It matters a bit in that, if I make a >traditional down payment, I can in theory, start cutting into the $/mo¹. The in practice problem is that my ROI has been outpaced by the housing market's lunacy, and more recently, there's the problem of inflation. (There's also the other direction, where savings is irrelevant in that you can just ignore the traditional down payment, and like, take PMI or something, but that raises the $/mo problem.) (Part of me is starting to go "well, but what if we just didn't count some of the cost as a cost per-se, I mean, housing is an investment, amirite? and the prices clearly only go up. (Heavy /s on that.)) Now, look at the current economy: inflation is +9% over the last 12 mo, YTD my investments are something like -18% (though of course, probably… things will get back to normal … any day now… — but that means that your time horizon for home purchasing has to be further out than things returning to normal), and IME eng salaries go down¹ until you inevitably change jobs, and tech companies are laying people off right now (so, it means gauging who you think is in deeper trouble: your current employer or your next employer, and boy do employees not get the kind of data or insight to tell that sort of thing — although after 2 years at a place I think one will know, for that company). ¹more or less. Adjustments for promotions might happen, but in my circle of people, we're not seeing meaningful adjustments for inflation or intra-level bumps.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Affordable is actually an interesting metric to take literally. Can it be done vs do I like the price. I spent 5 years struggling to figure out the difference when it came to purchasing a house. Eventually I came to the realization that yes, I can literally afford it. no, I don't like the price. Unfortunately, chances were low I would ever see a price I did like.
- weeblewobble 4y ago
  > The in practice problem is that my ROI has been outpaced by the housing market's lunacy, and more recently, there's the problem of inflation. What do you mean? Inflation is good for fixed-rate mortgage holders

nabakin 4y ago

It's not Japan's model driving housing costs low. It's the population growth rate.

dh5 4y ago
That and the ultra-stagnant economy which in turn leads to mortgage rates of around 1%.
- atwood22 4y ago
  Low mortgage rates increase prices.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

nradov 4y ago

That's not how it actually works in Japan. Single family houses aren't really built to last, and may depreciate to nothing over 30 years. But the land still has value, and may well be a good investment. People looking at the real estate market sometimes get confused and lump the land together with the improvements, but those are really two totally separate asset classes.

lazide 4y ago
Outside of Tokyo, the land is worth almost nothing now.
- nradov 4y ago
  Sure, and there are also many places in North America where land is worth almost nothing. So it's no different.

foogazi 4y ago

> A disgruntled millennial who despite great savings can't afford anything anywhere ?