4 ms·

They didn't join anything. They created it to extend their markets with a common currency. The others joined in.

by jvehent 15y ago

kleiba 15y ago
Well, it wasn't Germany and France alone who created the Euro zone...
- nakkiel 15y ago
  It was. France and Germany have historically been the driving political forces behind the European bodies. This is why now there is a leadership crisis in Europe: those two countries are still filling a leadership gap and thus criticized by other countries for taking decisions.
  - ticks 15y ago
    It has been quite the eye opener to watch France and Germany drive the proceedings. I was quite supportive of the EU and the Euro, but now I'm glad we (the UK) stayed out of the Euro. It would appear that this crisis is being used to move power away from the "weaker" countries.
    - nakkiel 15y ago
      As you are from the UK, I will warn you. Every news you read from a British source should be cross-checked with another source (just so you have another take on it). Don't get me wrong, I have no animosity toward the UK or anything like this. I also find BBC's reporting to be of very high quality and I watch it daily. However there is total unfairness regarding the Europe thing at the BBC. Basically I'd sum their coverage as "See what's going on? We told you so!". That said, I disagree with you regarding the "stay out of the Euro". I now think that it is sad that the UK didn't get more involved in the Europe. The UK is probably the only country that could have weighed enough to get France and Germany to actually implement another management. Europe is victim of the "small team" problem. It's a small team so it's ok if the two biggest guys manage it hand in hand because everybody's just ok with that and nobody can really challenge them. Problem arise with tougher times like we experience. You guys should have really pushed us :) My opinion: we needed you to kick us and tell us it's not ok to just take the lead; it needs to be formalized AND democratic.
      - inovica 15y ago
        A very well written comment. This is a prime example of how we should be communicating on HN. It gets the point across without being confrontational
      - maximusprime 15y ago
        We are so culturally different to the rest of Europe, I'm very very glad we stayed out. Us having any sort of leading voice in Europe would have been ridiculous. Hopefully we withdraw fully from the EU, and the Euro collapses. Just watch the Eurovision song contest for an idea of how ridiculously different Europe is from the UK, and how widespread the whole "we like them but not them" thing is.
        epscylonb 15y ago
        I am not sure I would like UK "culture" to be judged by our eurovision entries and suspect most europeans would feel the same. The UK does have a problem though, in many ways we are much more like america economically than the rest of europe, but european is trade is big part of our economy.
        maximusprime 15y ago
        Well, we try to enter songs/artists we think will appeal to Europe's tastes. And mainly fail, because we are so different from them. It's fairly obvious that our countries usual musical output is pretty decent, and if we entered any of that into the contest, we'd win (If it was actually anything to do with the song). I love the Eurovision song contest though, because it highlights how ridiculous the idea of integrating Europe is. You get countries who always vote for each other even when the song is rubbish, and you get no one voting for us, even when we have a half decent song. The Eurovision song contest is the best advert for a 'euro-skeptic'.
        zeugma 15y ago
        I won't take the eurovision to measure europe's culture. First it is not "European" anymore, neither politically (Swizerland) nor geographically (Algeria and Israel for example are participating). Secondly, France and Germany do not succeed very well and they participation is rather ridiculous.
    - barrkel 15y ago
      Bear in mind that countries like Ireland are still strongly in favour of the Euro, even after what has happened; think about the reasons that could be.
- kleiba 15y ago
  Oh, wow, I got quite a bit of downvotes for simply stating a fact: the Eurozone has been around since 1999, and 11 states of the EU were founding members. Germany and France were among them, sure enough, but they weren's the only ones.
  - Confusion 15y ago
    Don't be naive. Without either of them actively promoting and wanting it, there wouldn't have been a Eurozone. Any other country could have dropped out, but neither of these.
    - kleiba 15y ago
      Not sure were you get any naivite from my post. It's not like Germany and France decided to create a new currency and a few bystanders hopped on board. It was a very complicated and long process, and yes, the German reunification was at the heart of it, 10 years before the Eurozone actually came into existence. Even the US and Russia played key roles in the process. I do get where you're coming from though, since Germany and France have been the motors of the EU's economy. Fair enough. But the original claim from the ancestor was that Germany and France created the Eurozone and others joined later. That's simply factually untrue. Anyway...
  - nakkiel 15y ago
    You are technically right but the driving forces were France and Germany. Those two countries have a long history of wars and one of the goal of the European Coal and Steel Community, which started the whole thing, was to bring peace in the long term by ensuring close ties between the two countries. My grandfather who fought the Nazi in the French "resistance" once told me that whatever I thought politically about Europe, I should back it of all my weight because then I wouldn't have to see history repeat itself.
- rb2k_ 15y ago
  Here is a nice NPR podcast about the German-French relationship and the creation of the Eurozone: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/10/21/141512746/france-and-germany-a-love-story http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/10/21/141512746/france-a... Apparently Europe created the Eurozone because they were afraid of the newly united Germany

They didn't join anything. They created it to extend their markets with a common currency. The others joined in.

by jvehent 15y ago

They didn't join anything. They created it to extend their markets with a common currency. The others joined in.

kleiba 15y ago

Well, it wasn't Germany and France alone who created the Euro zone...

nakkiel 15y ago
It was. France and Germany have historically been the driving political forces behind the European bodies. This is why now there is a leadership crisis in Europe: those two countries are still filling a leadership gap and thus criticized by other countries for taking decisions.
- ticks 15y ago
  It has been quite the eye opener to watch France and Germany drive the proceedings. I was quite supportive of the EU and the Euro, but now I'm glad we (the UK) stayed out of the Euro. It would appear that this crisis is being used to move power away from the "weaker" countries.
  - nakkiel 15y ago
    As you are from the UK, I will warn you. Every news you read from a British source should be cross-checked with another source (just so you have another take on it). Don't get me wrong, I have no animosity toward the UK or anything like this. I also find BBC's reporting to be of very high quality and I watch it daily. However there is total unfairness regarding the Europe thing at the BBC. Basically I'd sum their coverage as "See what's going on? We told you so!". That said, I disagree with you regarding the "stay out of the Euro". I now think that it is sad that the UK didn't get more involved in the Europe. The UK is probably the only country that could have weighed enough to get France and Germany to actually implement another management. Europe is victim of the "small team" problem. It's a small team so it's ok if the two biggest guys manage it hand in hand because everybody's just ok with that and nobody can really challenge them. Problem arise with tougher times like we experience. You guys should have really pushed us :) My opinion: we needed you to kick us and tell us it's not ok to just take the lead; it needs to be formalized AND democratic.
    - inovica 15y ago
      A very well written comment. This is a prime example of how we should be communicating on HN. It gets the point across without being confrontational
    - maximusprime 15y ago
      We are so culturally different to the rest of Europe, I'm very very glad we stayed out. Us having any sort of leading voice in Europe would have been ridiculous. Hopefully we withdraw fully from the EU, and the Euro collapses. Just watch the Eurovision song contest for an idea of how ridiculously different Europe is from the UK, and how widespread the whole "we like them but not them" thing is.
      - epscylonb 15y ago
        I am not sure I would like UK "culture" to be judged by our eurovision entries and suspect most europeans would feel the same. The UK does have a problem though, in many ways we are much more like america economically than the rest of europe, but european is trade is big part of our economy.
        maximusprime 15y ago
        Well, we try to enter songs/artists we think will appeal to Europe's tastes. And mainly fail, because we are so different from them. It's fairly obvious that our countries usual musical output is pretty decent, and if we entered any of that into the contest, we'd win (If it was actually anything to do with the song). I love the Eurovision song contest though, because it highlights how ridiculous the idea of integrating Europe is. You get countries who always vote for each other even when the song is rubbish, and you get no one voting for us, even when we have a half decent song. The Eurovision song contest is the best advert for a 'euro-skeptic'.
        zeugma 15y ago
        I won't take the eurovision to measure europe's culture. First it is not "European" anymore, neither politically (Swizerland) nor geographically (Algeria and Israel for example are participating). Secondly, France and Germany do not succeed very well and they participation is rather ridiculous.
  - barrkel 15y ago
    Bear in mind that countries like Ireland are still strongly in favour of the Euro, even after what has happened; think about the reasons that could be.
kleiba 15y ago
Oh, wow, I got quite a bit of downvotes for simply stating a fact: the Eurozone has been around since 1999, and 11 states of the EU were founding members. Germany and France were among them, sure enough, but they weren's the only ones.
- Confusion 15y ago
  Don't be naive. Without either of them actively promoting and wanting it, there wouldn't have been a Eurozone. Any other country could have dropped out, but neither of these.
  - kleiba 15y ago
    Not sure were you get any naivite from my post. It's not like Germany and France decided to create a new currency and a few bystanders hopped on board. It was a very complicated and long process, and yes, the German reunification was at the heart of it, 10 years before the Eurozone actually came into existence. Even the US and Russia played key roles in the process. I do get where you're coming from though, since Germany and France have been the motors of the EU's economy. Fair enough. But the original claim from the ancestor was that Germany and France created the Eurozone and others joined later. That's simply factually untrue. Anyway...
- nakkiel 15y ago
  You are technically right but the driving forces were France and Germany. Those two countries have a long history of wars and one of the goal of the European Coal and Steel Community, which started the whole thing, was to bring peace in the long term by ensuring close ties between the two countries. My grandfather who fought the Nazi in the French "resistance" once told me that whatever I thought politically about Europe, I should back it of all my weight because then I wouldn't have to see history repeat itself.
rb2k_ 15y ago
Here is a nice NPR podcast about the German-French relationship and the creation of the Eurozone: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/10/21/141512746/france-and-germany-a-love-story http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/10/21/141512746/france-a... Apparently Europe created the Eurozone because they were afraid of the newly united Germany