4 ms·

The purpose of bitcoin, for example, is not to store a list of transactions?

tux3 4y ago
Storing the list is the easy part. I have a usb drive that can store the list. You want people to agree on which chain is the main chain, so that you can only add things to the list, and you can't go back or substitute it with another list without breaking proof of work. The purpose of bitcoin is to make people agree that a spent transaction is irrevocably spent.
- testesttest 4y ago
  Have you tried storing the list lately? I don't think you have a 10TB plus flash drive. https://etherscan.io/chartsync/chainarchive https://etherscan.io/chartsync/chainarchive Crypto is more and more centralised because the hardware to run your own node is now thousands of dollars. That is without even getting into miners...It is kinda failing.
  - influxmoment 4y ago
    That's Ethereum. Largely was consider a bad ideas because it's too large to independently validate
    - testesttest 4y ago
      Name a main stream one that is easy? I run archive nodes for SOL, ETH, Polygon, others.
      - mhluongo 4y ago
        Bitcoin.
    - MBCook 4y ago
      You’re right. 324 GB is far more manageable. Their point is totally invalid.
      - influxmoment 4y ago
        Agreed. 324GB and this level of growth is manageable and can be done with a raspberry pi and an ssd
  - yokem55 4y ago
    This chart is kind of dated and misleading at the moment. 1) You don't need an archive node to fully verify the current state of the chain. A full geth node in full sync mode (about 600gb) will process every transaction of every block and get you the current state. You only need an archive node if you want the history of each account and contract separately indexed. 2) Folks that do want an archive node can now use much more space efficient clients then geth such as erigon (1.4tb) or besu (1.2 tb) if they want to run a block explorer or query the state of an account in the past.
    - testesttest 4y ago
      1) you need an archive node to get historical events which is the only way to do lots of things. E.g. scrape all NFTs 2) Erigon has horrible bugs and is missing data. I filled a ticket against one such issue and they "fixed" it by making the exception go away and returning null. Their lack of attention to detail made me abandon the project. If you know someone in the project I can produce MANY examples and would be willing to do so because running an archive geth node sucks.
      - yokem55 4y ago
        I don't know any of them directly. But they do have an email on their github readme that you can send a request to for an invite to their discord. And if they don't respond on that, you can reach many of them in the Eth R&D discord.
deleted 4y ago
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influxmoment 4y ago
For the purpose of validation. If the transactions didn't need to be stored in full for validation they wouldn't be stored. You can see with newer upgrades to the Bitcoin blockchain like taproot you can have validation without storage
influxmoment 4y ago
There were actually blockchain updates proposed that didn't store transactions (see mimblewimble) but they had other issues so were not used

tux3 4y ago

Storing the list is the easy part. I have a usb drive that can store the list. You want people to agree on which chain is the main chain, so that you can only add things to the list, and you can't go back or substitute it with another list without breaking proof of work. The purpose of bitcoin is to make people agree that a spent transaction is irrevocably spent.

testesttest 4y ago
Have you tried storing the list lately? I don't think you have a 10TB plus flash drive. https://etherscan.io/chartsync/chainarchive https://etherscan.io/chartsync/chainarchive Crypto is more and more centralised because the hardware to run your own node is now thousands of dollars. That is without even getting into miners...It is kinda failing.
- influxmoment 4y ago
  That's Ethereum. Largely was consider a bad ideas because it's too large to independently validate
  - testesttest 4y ago
    Name a main stream one that is easy? I run archive nodes for SOL, ETH, Polygon, others.
    - mhluongo 4y ago
      Bitcoin.
  - MBCook 4y ago
    You’re right. 324 GB is far more manageable. Their point is totally invalid.
    - influxmoment 4y ago
      Agreed. 324GB and this level of growth is manageable and can be done with a raspberry pi and an ssd
- yokem55 4y ago
  This chart is kind of dated and misleading at the moment. 1) You don't need an archive node to fully verify the current state of the chain. A full geth node in full sync mode (about 600gb) will process every transaction of every block and get you the current state. You only need an archive node if you want the history of each account and contract separately indexed. 2) Folks that do want an archive node can now use much more space efficient clients then geth such as erigon (1.4tb) or besu (1.2 tb) if they want to run a block explorer or query the state of an account in the past.
  - testesttest 4y ago
    1) you need an archive node to get historical events which is the only way to do lots of things. E.g. scrape all NFTs 2) Erigon has horrible bugs and is missing data. I filled a ticket against one such issue and they "fixed" it by making the exception go away and returning null. Their lack of attention to detail made me abandon the project. If you know someone in the project I can produce MANY examples and would be willing to do so because running an archive geth node sucks.
    - yokem55 4y ago
      I don't know any of them directly. But they do have an email on their github readme that you can send a request to for an invite to their discord. And if they don't respond on that, you can reach many of them in the Eth R&D discord.

deleted 4y ago

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influxmoment 4y ago

For the purpose of validation. If the transactions didn't need to be stored in full for validation they wouldn't be stored. You can see with newer upgrades to the Bitcoin blockchain like taproot you can have validation without storage

influxmoment 4y ago

There were actually blockchain updates proposed that didn't store transactions (see mimblewimble) but they had other issues so were not used