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> My mind goes first to the young. People starting out need offices to learn a profession, to make friends, meet colleagues This is what I think remote work ad

> My mind goes first to the young. People starting out need offices to learn a profession, to make friends, meet colleagues This is what I think remote work advocates miss -- pure remote makes work 100% work, 0% percent anything else. This is probably fine if you work at a horrible finance firm where this was the case anyway, but for people in creative/tech professions where fun stuff / offsites / happy hours were the norm? Remote is such a massive downgrade in that case.

Daishiman 4y ago
I derived zero pleasure from the social interactions in the office for the first five years of my career. Zero real mentorship either. Making for a good social environment is a deliberate choice. You can do it online or offline. The best interactions at work I’ve had when we instituted brown bag lunches and made the first and last ten minutes of our weeklies into a space just for idling.
pram 4y ago
Oh no don't worry they weren't missed. Now I have to spend late Friday logged into Zoom while people awkwardly drink alcohol and talk about their dogs.
- icedchai 4y ago
  Heh. We have some non-mandatory "virtual happy hour" events. I usually skip those.
- catchnear4321 4y ago
  Sounds like it is awkward because nobody brought a thing to do. At a bar, you are “going to a bar.” “Going to happy hour.” Something along those lines. Drinking and talking about dogs at happy hour is still happy hour. A zoom meeting with no activity beyond drinking is just drinking on the job.
gbear605 4y ago
My experience in tech has been that we’ve had a lot more positive social interaction online than in-person. In-person, everyone feels like they have to be productive for the full eight hours in the workplace, while working remotely people feel more free to spend some time being social.
icedchai 4y ago
I miss the simple things, like finding a new restaurant and trying it with coworkers. It sounds cliche, but I liked "getting out of the house" and having more of a work-life separation. I have kinda accepted that that era is gone and is not coming back. The last time I worked out of an office was March, 2020.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  have you considered finding a new restaurant and trying it without coworkers
  - quartesixte 4y ago
    Have you considered that not everyone finds their coworkers insufferable, actually finds the camaraderie enjoyable, and do make friends at the office?
    - catchnear4321 4y ago
      What gave you the impression that the individual you are responding to would find their coworkers insufferable, or any of the rest?
    - welshwelsh 4y ago
      Actually no, I'm highly skeptical that happens outside of sitcoms
      - icedchai 4y ago
        You've seriously never had a fun time out to lunch or drinks with a coworker? I suppose it is possible!
      - 7speter 4y ago
        Also happened in old star trek
    - EddieDante 4y ago
EddieDante 4y ago
> for people in creative/tech professions where fun stuff / offsites / happy hours were the norm? I was one of those people, and I declined every invitation to mandatory fun, offsites, and happy hours. I was there to work, to do the job and get paid, and I wasn't getting paid to do extracurriculars. I left that bullshit behind when I graduated from high school. > Remote is such a massive downgrade in that case. Speak for yourself. Remote work has been an upgrade for me.
brycelarkin 4y ago
Remote work for finance is way worse than tech. There’s an expectation that you’re on 24/7. This is opposed to in-office for finance jobs where there’s a little differentiation between being in the office and being at home.
catchnear4321 4y ago
If there was money for happy hours and off sites before covid, where did it go? Meeting in person may be difficult, but if the money is still there, someone isn’t thinking of how to use it creatively. If it isn’t still there, the company is cutting costs by defunding morale. And hoping nobody noticed because “you can’t meet in person anyway.”
rayiner 4y ago
I’m quite perplexed at how many people depend on work for their social network. Don’t they have neighbors and friends?
therm0 4y ago
What I think in-office advocates miss -- You can still do all of these things with _actual_ friends and family who will be around after you get shitcanned, laid off, whatever. The unfortunate reality is that the discourse around the remote vs. ass-in-seat style of work must be all or nothing. Some workplaces take a hybrid approach, but they often don't have a mix of 100% in-person and 100% remote employees. You're usually in the office 80% of the time with the allowance of a day at home. So complaints like yours get heard by middle management types and they use them to justify the "welcome back to the office" bullshit. It is worlds easier to live my life when I don't have a two hour commute and when I have the ability to get mundane responsibilities fulfilled on my breaks, and when I don't have to rely on others to take care of my pets and family. When your need to pursue an ephemeral relationship with your coworkers becomes an imposition on my need to nurture the people I love, that's a serious problem and I'm not going to politely respect your "preferences". Go play ping-pong with your friends.

Daishiman 4y ago

I derived zero pleasure from the social interactions in the office for the first five years of my career. Zero real mentorship either. Making for a good social environment is a deliberate choice. You can do it online or offline. The best interactions at work I’ve had when we instituted brown bag lunches and made the first and last ten minutes of our weeklies into a space just for idling.

pram 4y ago

Oh no don't worry they weren't missed. Now I have to spend late Friday logged into Zoom while people awkwardly drink alcohol and talk about their dogs.

icedchai 4y ago
Heh. We have some non-mandatory "virtual happy hour" events. I usually skip those.
catchnear4321 4y ago
Sounds like it is awkward because nobody brought a thing to do. At a bar, you are “going to a bar.” “Going to happy hour.” Something along those lines. Drinking and talking about dogs at happy hour is still happy hour. A zoom meeting with no activity beyond drinking is just drinking on the job.

gbear605 4y ago

My experience in tech has been that we’ve had a lot more positive social interaction online than in-person. In-person, everyone feels like they have to be productive for the full eight hours in the workplace, while working remotely people feel more free to spend some time being social.

icedchai 4y ago

I miss the simple things, like finding a new restaurant and trying it with coworkers. It sounds cliche, but I liked "getting out of the house" and having more of a work-life separation. I have kinda accepted that that era is gone and is not coming back. The last time I worked out of an office was March, 2020.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
have you considered finding a new restaurant and trying it without coworkers
- quartesixte 4y ago
  Have you considered that not everyone finds their coworkers insufferable, actually finds the camaraderie enjoyable, and do make friends at the office?
  - catchnear4321 4y ago
    What gave you the impression that the individual you are responding to would find their coworkers insufferable, or any of the rest?
  - welshwelsh 4y ago
    Actually no, I'm highly skeptical that happens outside of sitcoms
    - icedchai 4y ago
      You've seriously never had a fun time out to lunch or drinks with a coworker? I suppose it is possible!
    - 7speter 4y ago
      Also happened in old star trek
  - EddieDante 4y ago

EddieDante 4y ago

> for people in creative/tech professions where fun stuff / offsites / happy hours were the norm? I was one of those people, and I declined every invitation to mandatory fun, offsites, and happy hours. I was there to work, to do the job and get paid, and I wasn't getting paid to do extracurriculars. I left that bullshit behind when I graduated from high school. > Remote is such a massive downgrade in that case. Speak for yourself. Remote work has been an upgrade for me.

brycelarkin 4y ago

Remote work for finance is way worse than tech. There’s an expectation that you’re on 24/7. This is opposed to in-office for finance jobs where there’s a little differentiation between being in the office and being at home.

catchnear4321 4y ago

If there was money for happy hours and off sites before covid, where did it go? Meeting in person may be difficult, but if the money is still there, someone isn’t thinking of how to use it creatively. If it isn’t still there, the company is cutting costs by defunding morale. And hoping nobody noticed because “you can’t meet in person anyway.”

rayiner 4y ago

I’m quite perplexed at how many people depend on work for their social network. Don’t they have neighbors and friends?

therm0 4y ago

What I think in-office advocates miss -- You can still do all of these things with _actual_ friends and family who will be around after you get shitcanned, laid off, whatever. The unfortunate reality is that the discourse around the remote vs. ass-in-seat style of work must be all or nothing. Some workplaces take a hybrid approach, but they often don't have a mix of 100% in-person and 100% remote employees. You're usually in the office 80% of the time with the allowance of a day at home. So complaints like yours get heard by middle management types and they use them to justify the "welcome back to the office" bullshit. It is worlds easier to live my life when I don't have a two hour commute and when I have the ability to get mundane responsibilities fulfilled on my breaks, and when I don't have to rely on others to take care of my pets and family. When your need to pursue an ephemeral relationship with your coworkers becomes an imposition on my need to nurture the people I love, that's a serious problem and I'm not going to politely respect your "preferences". Go play ping-pong with your friends.