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Worst parts of Lion over OS X: 1) Removed "Save As". You now have to duplicate and then save the file. 2) Smaller resize/minimize/"maximize" buttons. 3) The

Worst parts of Lion over OS X: 1) Removed "Save As". You now have to duplicate and then save the file. 2) Smaller resize/minimize/"maximize" buttons. 3) The green maximize button still doesn't maximize. 4) Switched default behavior with mouse scrolling. 5) Generally slower and more resource intensive, noticeable on older (2009) Macbook Pros. 6) Terrible, lengthy switch over from the previous version of FileVault, if you had that enabled. 7) Crashed a lot of programs initially, especially Chrome. Now not as much, but very crashy a few months ago.

furyg3 15y ago
8) Strange full screen behavior. I get where they're going with this (iOS-y) but this is just a horrible neither-here-nor-there solution. Dual monitors makes it a true joke.
adbge 15y ago
Seriously, wtf is up with removing "Save As"? I had to copy the text from a file I was working on and paste it into a new file because the "Save a new version" option wasn't doing anything. One you missed: really horrible auto-correct feature Apple added. It will replace a word when you're in the middle of typing it. Completely broken and totally transparent. At first, I thought that WriteRoom was just buggy. Oh, and the "Home" folder isn't exposed under the Favorites section of Finder by default anymore. You have to go to "Go > Home". Took me a little while to figure that one out.
- ugh 15y ago
  Save as doesn’t make sense if the app auto-saves.
  - fiblye 15y ago
    "Save as" is usually used when you want to save it as a different file somewhere else, and most people have cmd-shift-s ingrained in their mind. This no longer exists and there's no excuse. Autosaving doesn't even do the same job.
    - ugh 15y ago
      I don’t think you understand. This is about paradigm shifts. Here is how it used to work: You open this old document because you want to create a new one and use the old one as a template. You either Save as right away or (much more likely) you edit for a bit and do a Save as at some later point. If you do this with auto save you are fucked. (Well, not really. There is now Versions, so starting with Lion this is finally a recoverable mistake.) Editing your document for a bit before doing a Save as with auto save is the same as mistakenly saving your document – overwriting your old document – instead of doing a Save as. That mistake is catastrophic – I know it, I used to make it often enough myself – and users would make it all the time had Apple left Save as in. Now when you open an old document you will be asked – as soon as you start editing – whether you want to edit the document or duplicate it, thus avoiding that catastrophic mistake. You can also duplicate documents at any time. The transition period will be painful, that’s for sure, but the end result is pure bliss. It’s worth it. A lot of changes with Lion are just like this. Sometimes some pain while transitioning is the price for awesomeness.
      - dasil003 15y ago
        Personally I miss my Save As and I am not a fan of auto-save, but I think it's horseshit that someone downvoted this.
      - greggman 15y ago
        And what if my workflow involves making multiple files based off the same document? Say I making png buttons in Photoshop. I change the test to "Order" pick save as, type "order.png", change the text to "Cancel" pick save as, type "cancel.png", change the text to "Help" pick save as, type "help.png". It sounds like that work flow just got massively tedious.
        ugh 15y ago
        Duplicate → Save, Duplicate → Save. One step turned two. Worse? Yes. Tedious? No. It’s worth it given the other conceptual changes and the fact that this is very much an edge case.
  - cjfont 15y ago
    Sure it does, it just auto-saves to whatever your last "Save As" was.
    - ugh 15y ago
      It’s possible to do but it would confuse. It doesn’t make sense conceptually.
      - vacri 15y ago
        I've not used lion so am not familiar with it, but going from what someone else is saying above, you need to 'duplicate' then 'save'. If it's autosaving, this doesn't make sense conceptually either. Why would the app not be autosaving once the duplicated document has been created? Why do you need to save separately?
        ugh 15y ago
        You still have to save one first time, else the OS wouldn’t know where to put the file and how to name it. Lion only auto saves after that. That is irrespective of whether your create a new file or duplicate a file. (Apple could have been a lot more radical here, I’m unsure whether they should have been. That certainly would have meant a lot more work and it would have been an even more complicated transition.)
        vacri 15y ago
        I would have thought that the duplicate function would have had 'duplicate it where?' in it. The only reason I can think of for not having this is so you could make temporary changes to a document and not have them saved - which just seems to be a different way of arranging the cart and horse compared to the 'save as' workflow. With the Save As workflow, temporary changes are simply not saved. With the Duplicate workflow, you have to dupe the document first to avoid unwanted saving, then make your temporary changes. I don't see much of an improvement overall.
        15y ago
- protomyth 15y ago
  The new "Duplicate" then "Save" paradigm is not making me particularly happy. It must be so automatic to me to go to Finder >> Preferences >> Sidebar and check / uncheck stuff that I didn't know Home wasn't checked by default.
artursapek 15y ago
Wait- they removed "Save as"? I am so glad I chose to ignore Lion.
- andrewpi 15y ago
  Only in Apple-produced apps like TextEdit. Microsoft Word, etc. still have it.
  - artursapek 15y ago
    Oh my god, so it's inconsistent and it's a step in the wrong direction?
    - ugh 15y ago
      They removed it for all apps that auto save. Save as doesn’t really make sense if an app auto saves and only serves to confuse. You now duplicate and then save.
      - artursapek 15y ago
        When I saw the previews for Lion I thought autosave seemed like overkill. When I'm working on anything I "autosave" by reaching over slightly and hitting CMD-S every time I make any small amount of progress. The last time I experienced significant data/progress loss was probably about 3 years ago before I developed this habit. I don't see what problem they're trying to fix.
        ugh 15y ago
        Well, then you haven’t met my parents. (I also hit Cmd-S frequently but sometimes I honestly forget.) Auto save is an obvious improvement. The whole saving paradigm sucked and I’m so happy that Apple is tackling it.
        krevis 15y ago
        The problem is: Most people don't do that, especially new computer users. (Or, these days, people who are used to web apps, which don't use command-S.) They don't learn until they've been burned, probably quite badly. If the computer doesn't HAVE to burn them in the first place, why should it?
jbrennan 15y ago
3) The green maximize button still doesn't maximize. This isn't and has never been a "maximize" button. It's supposed to zoom the window to fit the content as best it can without scrolling. It's up to the developer to implement it properly with their own logic.
- georgieporgie 15y ago
  But very, very few apps ever get it right, and most people seem to just want minimize and maximize.
  - dasil003 15y ago
    Have you ever used a 30" display? Maximizing windows does not make a whole lot of sense there, especially considering the difference in window contents on Windows vs Mac (ie. self-contained menubar, etc).
    - georgieporgie 15y ago
      That's where the newer Microsoft Windows method of maximizing into 1/2 the screen works well. I'd prefer if it were customizable to work in thirds, though. I maintain that people think of multi-windowed UI in terms of windows first. Resizing a window to fit the content makes less sense than resizing the content to fit the window. People also seem to get really upset when UI interaction isn't consistent, and the Mac approach means that it varies wildly between apps.
      - koenigdavidmj 15y ago
        You can drag a window to a corner to get it to fill a quarter screen. Kind of hard to hit the lower corners (it is not the screen corner but the top of the taskbar).
    - vacri 15y ago
      What proportion of OSX users use 30" displays? Hell, what proportion of them use desktop-variety computers?
johnthedebs 15y ago
If you're going to criticize it, at least do so in a constructive way. In your list of 7, I see 2 real complaints. 1) Agreed, this can be annoying. 2) The buttons are visually smaller, but have the same target click area. 3) It behaves the same way it did before, so this isn't any worse. 4) The new scrolling takes a day or two to get used to, and then is better. If you really don't like it, there's an option to toggle it off. This isn't an issue. 5) Agreed, it is arguably slower and tends to drain the battery faster. It's also doing more. It sucks, but that's the price of progress. 6) As I see it, FireVault is a huge plus and not at all a drawback. Was there anything 'terrible' about the process other than that it was lengthy? And really, a one-time conversion cost for such a huge improvement to this feature was a problem for you? 7) This happens with practically every desktop OS upgrade ever and, as you mentioned, isn't a problem anymore. So besides #1 and #5, are there other real complaints? I'd personally add "really botched multi-touch gestures" to the list, but I'm genuinely curious if it's actually that much worse or people are just piling onto this rant.
pedrolll 15y ago
Lion is the first OSX version I've used, and it's really hard for me to understand these complaints. 1) Removed? It's still in there for office and photoshop 2) Never really need to minimize, use mission control 3) Have no use for that green button, use full screen apps 4) Coming from Windows, learned reverse scrolling in 15 minutes, now the other way feels strange 5) Can't really address this, this macbook air is by far the fastest computer I've used 6,7) Haven't noticed these
X-Istence 15y ago
6 - It has to un-encrypt all of your data and re-encrypt it. This is always going to be slow, especially if it is on a single spinning disk.

furyg3 15y ago

8) Strange full screen behavior. I get where they're going with this (iOS-y) but this is just a horrible neither-here-nor-there solution. Dual monitors makes it a true joke.

adbge 15y ago

Seriously, wtf is up with removing "Save As"? I had to copy the text from a file I was working on and paste it into a new file because the "Save a new version" option wasn't doing anything. One you missed: really horrible auto-correct feature Apple added. It will replace a word when you're in the middle of typing it. Completely broken and totally transparent. At first, I thought that WriteRoom was just buggy. Oh, and the "Home" folder isn't exposed under the Favorites section of Finder by default anymore. You have to go to "Go > Home". Took me a little while to figure that one out.

ugh 15y ago
Save as doesn’t make sense if the app auto-saves.
- fiblye 15y ago
  "Save as" is usually used when you want to save it as a different file somewhere else, and most people have cmd-shift-s ingrained in their mind. This no longer exists and there's no excuse. Autosaving doesn't even do the same job.
  - ugh 15y ago
    I don’t think you understand. This is about paradigm shifts. Here is how it used to work: You open this old document because you want to create a new one and use the old one as a template. You either Save as right away or (much more likely) you edit for a bit and do a Save as at some later point. If you do this with auto save you are fucked. (Well, not really. There is now Versions, so starting with Lion this is finally a recoverable mistake.) Editing your document for a bit before doing a Save as with auto save is the same as mistakenly saving your document – overwriting your old document – instead of doing a Save as. That mistake is catastrophic – I know it, I used to make it often enough myself – and users would make it all the time had Apple left Save as in. Now when you open an old document you will be asked – as soon as you start editing – whether you want to edit the document or duplicate it, thus avoiding that catastrophic mistake. You can also duplicate documents at any time. The transition period will be painful, that’s for sure, but the end result is pure bliss. It’s worth it. A lot of changes with Lion are just like this. Sometimes some pain while transitioning is the price for awesomeness.
    - dasil003 15y ago
      Personally I miss my Save As and I am not a fan of auto-save, but I think it's horseshit that someone downvoted this.
    - greggman 15y ago
      And what if my workflow involves making multiple files based off the same document? Say I making png buttons in Photoshop. I change the test to "Order" pick save as, type "order.png", change the text to "Cancel" pick save as, type "cancel.png", change the text to "Help" pick save as, type "help.png". It sounds like that work flow just got massively tedious.
      - ugh 15y ago
        Duplicate → Save, Duplicate → Save. One step turned two. Worse? Yes. Tedious? No. It’s worth it given the other conceptual changes and the fact that this is very much an edge case.
- cjfont 15y ago
  Sure it does, it just auto-saves to whatever your last "Save As" was.
  - ugh 15y ago
    It’s possible to do but it would confuse. It doesn’t make sense conceptually.
    - vacri 15y ago
      I've not used lion so am not familiar with it, but going from what someone else is saying above, you need to 'duplicate' then 'save'. If it's autosaving, this doesn't make sense conceptually either. Why would the app not be autosaving once the duplicated document has been created? Why do you need to save separately?
      - ugh 15y ago
        You still have to save one first time, else the OS wouldn’t know where to put the file and how to name it. Lion only auto saves after that. That is irrespective of whether your create a new file or duplicate a file. (Apple could have been a lot more radical here, I’m unsure whether they should have been. That certainly would have meant a lot more work and it would have been an even more complicated transition.)
        vacri 15y ago
        I would have thought that the duplicate function would have had 'duplicate it where?' in it. The only reason I can think of for not having this is so you could make temporary changes to a document and not have them saved - which just seems to be a different way of arranging the cart and horse compared to the 'save as' workflow. With the Save As workflow, temporary changes are simply not saved. With the Duplicate workflow, you have to dupe the document first to avoid unwanted saving, then make your temporary changes. I don't see much of an improvement overall.
        15y ago
protomyth 15y ago
The new "Duplicate" then "Save" paradigm is not making me particularly happy. It must be so automatic to me to go to Finder >> Preferences >> Sidebar and check / uncheck stuff that I didn't know Home wasn't checked by default.

artursapek 15y ago

Wait- they removed "Save as"? I am so glad I chose to ignore Lion.

andrewpi 15y ago
Only in Apple-produced apps like TextEdit. Microsoft Word, etc. still have it.
- artursapek 15y ago
  Oh my god, so it's inconsistent and it's a step in the wrong direction?
  - ugh 15y ago
    They removed it for all apps that auto save. Save as doesn’t really make sense if an app auto saves and only serves to confuse. You now duplicate and then save.
    - artursapek 15y ago
      When I saw the previews for Lion I thought autosave seemed like overkill. When I'm working on anything I "autosave" by reaching over slightly and hitting CMD-S every time I make any small amount of progress. The last time I experienced significant data/progress loss was probably about 3 years ago before I developed this habit. I don't see what problem they're trying to fix.
      - ugh 15y ago
        Well, then you haven’t met my parents. (I also hit Cmd-S frequently but sometimes I honestly forget.) Auto save is an obvious improvement. The whole saving paradigm sucked and I’m so happy that Apple is tackling it.
      - krevis 15y ago
        The problem is: Most people don't do that, especially new computer users. (Or, these days, people who are used to web apps, which don't use command-S.) They don't learn until they've been burned, probably quite badly. If the computer doesn't HAVE to burn them in the first place, why should it?

jbrennan 15y ago

3) The green maximize button still doesn't maximize. This isn't and has never been a "maximize" button. It's supposed to zoom the window to fit the content as best it can without scrolling. It's up to the developer to implement it properly with their own logic.

georgieporgie 15y ago
But very, very few apps ever get it right, and most people seem to just want minimize and maximize.
- dasil003 15y ago
  Have you ever used a 30" display? Maximizing windows does not make a whole lot of sense there, especially considering the difference in window contents on Windows vs Mac (ie. self-contained menubar, etc).
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    That's where the newer Microsoft Windows method of maximizing into 1/2 the screen works well. I'd prefer if it were customizable to work in thirds, though. I maintain that people think of multi-windowed UI in terms of windows first. Resizing a window to fit the content makes less sense than resizing the content to fit the window. People also seem to get really upset when UI interaction isn't consistent, and the Mac approach means that it varies wildly between apps.
    - koenigdavidmj 15y ago
      You can drag a window to a corner to get it to fill a quarter screen. Kind of hard to hit the lower corners (it is not the screen corner but the top of the taskbar).
  - vacri 15y ago
    What proportion of OSX users use 30" displays? Hell, what proportion of them use desktop-variety computers?

johnthedebs 15y ago

If you're going to criticize it, at least do so in a constructive way. In your list of 7, I see 2 real complaints. 1) Agreed, this can be annoying. 2) The buttons are visually smaller, but have the same target click area. 3) It behaves the same way it did before, so this isn't any worse. 4) The new scrolling takes a day or two to get used to, and then is better. If you really don't like it, there's an option to toggle it off. This isn't an issue. 5) Agreed, it is arguably slower and tends to drain the battery faster. It's also doing more. It sucks, but that's the price of progress. 6) As I see it, FireVault is a huge plus and not at all a drawback. Was there anything 'terrible' about the process other than that it was lengthy? And really, a one-time conversion cost for such a huge improvement to this feature was a problem for you? 7) This happens with practically every desktop OS upgrade ever and, as you mentioned, isn't a problem anymore. So besides #1 and #5, are there other real complaints? I'd personally add "really botched multi-touch gestures" to the list, but I'm genuinely curious if it's actually that much worse or people are just piling onto this rant.

pedrolll 15y ago

Lion is the first OSX version I've used, and it's really hard for me to understand these complaints. 1) Removed? It's still in there for office and photoshop 2) Never really need to minimize, use mission control 3) Have no use for that green button, use full screen apps 4) Coming from Windows, learned reverse scrolling in 15 minutes, now the other way feels strange 5) Can't really address this, this macbook air is by far the fastest computer I've used 6,7) Haven't noticed these

X-Istence 15y ago

6 - It has to un-encrypt all of your data and re-encrypt it. This is always going to be slow, especially if it is on a single spinning disk.