8 ms·

How I successfully became a software engineer in 3 months

23 points by nateb2022 4y ago

alfiedotwtf 4y ago
> I believe everyone can be a developer if they put in the time and effort For a non-FAANG, absolutely. But for a FAANG after browsing Blind for a while, it's more about grinding Leetcode a few hours a day for 3-6 months :yikes:
6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago
I notice the 'success' is in the wrong place. More laudable would be 'How I became a successful software engineer in 3 months'.
OrangeMonkey 4y ago
I truly love success stories like this. We can make fun of bootcamps, but the people going into them are by-and-large trying to make themselves better than they are. Its the human condition and should be our goal.
- halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
  You cannot claim this with any certainty. I would counter-claim that many who go into developing are in it for the gold-rush mentality (I can get paid $$$) which ultimately lowers the quality of software. I'm not doubting there are those who go into it with good intentions but it's not something that is cut out for anyone and those who get into it because it's a bright, shiny object are doing themselves a disservice.
  - OrangeMonkey 4y ago
    I respectfully disagree. I could disparage the reasons someone gets into programming (though, I think, money is a fine one), but if they then take positive actions to train, grow, learn then that is a net positive. Look, we all know people who complain but never fix things. I have family members who I dearly care about, but they would rather whine about X/Y than take a step to fix it (or fix themselves). Someone taking the time, for whatever reason, to become more than they were before is a net positive I think. Perhaps its more than you care to know, but its an important topic for me. I truly believe one of the reasons we are on this world is to become more and to grow. I appreciate people who try.
    - halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
      You're misrepresenting my sentiment. I support people trying, but it's annoying it see people portray themselves with what is obviously false confidence after going through a bootcamp, of which is talked to death on HN. That's great this person is trying to better themselves but they are at the very beginning of the long process of becoming an actual, productive software developer. I guess what really eats at me is the trivialization of software development and the hubris that a 3-month bootcamp can bring you to a place to "tackle anything you put your mind to" when that is the farthest from the truth.
  - taurath 4y ago
    Most developers I know who are self taught have been passionate about building things for a long time and have been experimenting on their own time for a long time before they got their first SE role. Even with the potential financial rewards, the amount of learning one must do on one’s own time is too large for someone to just walk up to it. I find that there’s a lot of people with CS degrees like this though who just wanted that degree to make more money, and then find they really dislike the roles.
    - halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
      I am one of those people - no CS degree, self-taught and ground my way up to FAANG. Never once did I think I could "tackle any problem I could put my mind to" until around the 10 year mark.
      - taurath 4y ago
        I am the same (though I avoid FAANG for ethical purposes) - I don’t feel like it’s a reasonable statement to say anyone can tackle any problem, but within known domains there’s little that can’t be done given enough time
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  I would never make fun of bootcamps (my own journey has been ... "non-linear" ...), but I think that it is very important that people that attend them, have a mindset of "This is just the first rung of a very long ladder." I don't really appreciate recent bootcamp grads, lecturing me on how "I'm doing it wrong." The fault for this, usually falls on the bootcamp teachers, who present their information as "The One, True Way, and All Others Are Heathens that Will Burn In Hell." It's a great way to get the students pumped up and engaged, but has ... drawbacks, when in the work world. It depends on the mindset that we take with us, to our first job, and our eagerness to learn. I feel that bootcamps usually filter for people that are serious about bettering themselves, and also enforce a certain level of Discipline. My own schooling was at a "redneck" EET school. It was exactly the kind of thing that popped up in droves, after Vietnam, to mine the GI Bill, and folded, not too long, after. The school, itself, was no great shakes, but it taught me Discipline, and enforced a work ethic that still pays dividends, to this day, 40 years later. Welcome to Hell, kid. The learning never stops. Welcome to Heaven, kid. The learning never stops.
  - taurath 4y ago
    OTOH, reducing complexity is one of the most important things in working on an engineering team. Having “one” way to do things rather than the nnn*n helps anyone new to be able to focus more on the system itself rather than picking up a new tool for every task. There’s 1000 ways to build something and the lack of structure makes people feel overwhelmed easily when trying to learn.
Kalanos 4y ago
you should probably avoid the term engineer and use "developer" instead, and "junior"
- thro1 4y ago
  It's just his imagination..
- EddySchauHai 4y ago
  > I was hired as a junior software engineer at a tech startup He says ‘Junior’ later on, and if his job role says software engineer he can use the term.
  - kohanz 4y ago
    In his jurisdiction (NYC), probably. Not everywhere, even though in places where this is technically prohibited (e.g Canada), it is poorly enforced.
    - goodpoint 4y ago
      Just because something is legal it does not mean it's reasonable.
      - EddySchauHai 4y ago
        Just because something isn’t reasonable doesn’t mean it isn’t correct. If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. Do I think it’s reasonable the term is used for people without professional experience or formal education? Not really. But that’s how it is and we shouldn’t put someone down (as OP seems to have done) because of it.
        goodpoint 4y ago
        > If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. No.
PenguinCoder 4y ago
Fluff article that seems to be just a dark pattern/undercover advertising for the boot camp. Not a whole lot of actual 'how' other than the basics of anything. Show up, do the work, and out effort into it. But mentions the boot camp six times.
tempe1h1 4y ago
I wouldn't think that 3 months is enough time to decide if success has been reached
trwhite 4y ago
Easy to get in. Hard to get out.
- tiborsaas 4y ago
  Let's just say that it's a difficult path towards woodworking.
halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
> In 3 short months, we learned everything necessary to become software engineers. I felt like I could achieve anything I put my mind to. Am I the only one who cringed at this? Dunning-Kruger would like a word. I've been developing for near a decade and am just realizing what it means to become a software engineer; and it's a whole lot more than just hands on keyboards.
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  > In 3 short months, we learned everything I've met, and worked with, people who thought like this - they always had a mind-boggling blind spot for their own failures. If they actually encountered something they were unable to do, or made a mistake, their brains would just seemingly erase any memory of the experience.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  The problem I see, especially for someone who is entering the field of software development, is the lack of critical thinking. If you think that you've learned everything needed to become a software engineer in three months, wouldn't it cause you to wonder why four-year programs exist? Has this ever occurred to OP?
  - mrtranscendence 4y ago
    I suppose the counterargument would go something like: four-year degrees are full of cruft that has no impact on your ability to do software development work. That's undoubtedly the case to some extent; my extra year of French and my philosophy electives don't help me very much day-to-day. I bet you could condense a program down to something like 2-3 years, though I can't imagine how much someone has learnt in only 3 months.
    - freedom2099 4y ago
      I would argue that this is an issue of American colleges… in my home country (Italy) when you attend computer engineering university you only study engineering topics. No humanities at all.
pj_mukh 4y ago
I know several software engineers who look longingly at real-estate management and it’s default literal rent-seeking monetary rewards. Some have even taken the plunge. Nice to hear about someone going the other way.
designium 4y ago
A lot of people from HN have no CS or engineering background and we can still make a living in the tech world in technical fields. I think more people should be encouraged to try and jump into tech career if they have the time and resources and encourage them to do; salaries are higher and demand for talents are still pretty high. It can be a life changing experience. Stop bitching if the OP is a jr / developer or whatsoever. He got a tech job anyway. We should clap for him not be pedantic about it.
mytailorisrich 4y ago
Happy for him if that went well and he got a job out of it, but: >In 3 short months, we learned everything necessary to become software engineers. Just 'no'. This is a case of not knowing what you don't know.
DogLover_ 4y ago
Must admit I find it discouraging that I spend years in university years ago when people now just finish some self-learned material in a matter of a few months. It is only getting simpler every year. I don't see the future being bright for this discipline if the sentiment is that that is all it takes.
- joshmanders 4y ago
  > I don't see the future being bright for this discipline if the sentiment is that that is all it takes. Building web apps isn't rocket science lol. You're just positioning divs on a screen and building basic CRUD apps. You can indeed learn most of what you need in 3 months. The rest is learned with experience in the real world.
  - Cwizard 4y ago
    Exactly I think there are different types of jobs. If you just need to make a basic web site I am sure you can learn those skills in a few months. Being able to build real systems is another matter entirely and requires a lot of learning (formal or not) and years of experience. For me this is the difference between a developer and a software engineer.
- sktrdie 4y ago
  Not sure why you find it discouraging. Having a degree means you probably went through a more formal process and were exposed to a more academic-way of studying things which can benefit your career as well as your personal life. Knowledge is always good!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- huimang 4y ago
  Code monkeys are different than programmers (or "software engineers"). Nobody is learning, actually learning, all these topics in a condensed 3-month program. Good programmers are always going to have work, because there simply aren't enough good programmers.
otras 4y ago
The most important part is missing from the article: how they found and got accepted for the first job. The hardest part of switching isn’t attending the bootcamp, it’s finding a company that is willing to take a chance on your lack of experience and future growth potential. Doubly so for switching into the industry during Q3 of 2020 and fully remote. Did they get extremely lucky? Did they go to school with the hiring manager? Was it something in between? Articles like this are appealing because they paint a rosy picture of easily jumping into it, but in reality, it’s usually much harder. Those details matter.
- jriggs 4y ago
  True. I have experience working as an instructor at a bootcamp. I've had the opportunity to learn more about bootcamps as an industry....The best bootcamps (highest placement rates) without fail offer a career services portion as well. That gives you interview prep, LinkedIn support, resume building and most importantly networking with hiring partners. I have no doubt someone can become a dev in from no experience in 3 months, because I've seen it happen personally hundreds of times. But without the career services it is far more difficult to break in.
- taurath 4y ago
  Correct. I am self taught but it is only through my somewhat relevant experience as a project manager and in IT that a company would even give me an internship based on a small demo and a recommendation from a lead engineer that I had promise. I have no idea if I would have been able to “break in” otherwise. They paid me next to nothing and I could afford that. It’s a lot of privilege and luck that got me in. I don’t recommend others try to follow my path, but I also wish it were easier to do so. After a year of experience I was getting legit decent offers - initially almost entirely via referral. I stayed around the initial company because I was still learning a lot. Many years later I am a senior engineer. The world does open after the first job but getting the first one is hell. Don’t underestimate the class signaling that companies and hiring managers look for. Being some person with a portfolio and no experience almost never seems to make anyone take notice or consider an interview. I haven’t figured out how one would best repeat what I did - there’s lots of very viable and capable (and diverse!) people I know who’ve never been given the chance. I’d love if there were companies that offered apprenticeships - plenty of people out there would take low pay to get some real experience.
HidyBush 4y ago
"How I successfully became a civil engineer in 3 months" Brrrrr. Why the hell this is allowed when talking about software is beyond me.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  language evolves, but professional societies are important for workers, I think it will take a bigger revolution for workers to re-frame the term again given the now-standard title inflation to software engineer across industry, even here in canada
- sdoering 4y ago
  My thoughts exactly.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  Because people expect bridges to work and software to fail.
- huimang 4y ago
  Because the term [junior/senior] software engineer doesn't mean anything. If you have a laptop, congrats you're now a software engineer.
  - mytailorisrich 4y ago
    If you have a laptop you have the tool you need to write software. But that does not mean that you have the skills and expertise to practise engineering applied to building software products within strict constraints. Similarly, woodworking tools do not make one a carpenter.
  - soco 4y ago
    They should call themselves "programmers" - if they can actually do the job of programming what they have been taught in that bootcamp (and it looks they can, being employed now). But engineering is a well defined term and sometimes even protected in many other places. I work with people of all kind of backgrounds, but you can definitely notice the difference in feedback you receive from somebody with a university background (which I would call engineer).
ichbinlegion 4y ago
I don't have formal CS education, but I've been working as a developer for 25 years. In the firm I've been in that last 15 years, only developers with 10+ years of experience actually make a difference. Others are either still learning, or just doing menial work. It makes me a bit sad this trend of "become a developer in 3 months". It's just a dream.
- johnthewise 4y ago
  There are plenty of web dev work around and you don't need 10+ years of experience to do it.
  - ichbinlegion 4y ago
    Do you understand that is just intern-level work?
    - mrtranscendence 4y ago
      TIL that there are only interns and people with 10+ years of experience.
      - ichbinlegion 4y ago
        TIL I can become a surgeon with a 3 months bootcamp
        mrtranscendence 4y ago
        I'm not arguing that someone with a 3 month bootcamp is going to be a highly-qualified, productive software developer. But 10+ years to get to a productive state? That's not my experience, and I don't think that's because all the work I've ever been exposed to is "intern-level".
    - Server6 4y ago
      It's still work and needs done. How do you expect someone to get "25 years of experience" without giving them work to do?
soneca 4y ago
It took me 8 months for my first job as software developer when I was 37yo, self-taught. I wrote about the decision, the learning process, the job hunt, if anyone is interested. https://rodrigohgpontes.github.io/ https://rodrigohgpontes.github.io/
wahnfrieden 4y ago
>I am 24 years old and I'm ashamed to say my goal used to be to make as much money as possible. Why do workers feel and express this shame, but owners are no target of it outside of blatant abuse cases? It's a sick trick against workers
sfortis 4y ago
to me, seems like an app academy social ad
confident_inept 4y ago
At a very young age I ventured into taking apart my personal computer to better understand it. When I was in my early teens I could build a whole computer with off-the-shelf parts without any help. My older peers would poke at me for being some sort of "tech wizard" because computers were something a lot of the older generation didn't grow up with at the time. I would take every opportunity to show interested parties just how straightforward it was that I did; Certain cards fit in certain slots, cables only fit in one way, and there were a few internals you had to be a little more careful with than others. Many of those people were surprised to see just how simple "building a computer" was, more akin to building Lego than something that needed a college degree and high amounts of technical skill. Code boot camps tend to be a bit one-dimensional and only give the students a slice of the basics, most often including setting up a work environment and focusing on lessons that produce immediate results and/or feedback. People interested in software development don't realize how easy it can be to get started making small projects, often needing their hand held at that critical entry point. Boot camps can help lift the veil of mysticism and show that software development isn't sorcery.
fimdomeio 4y ago
"Successfully becoming a software engineer in 3 months" is a sign that one is not yet aware of all the things he doesn't know. If, as it looks like, he's writing this two years after that experience and still does not feel a little bit of that imposters syndrome, than I would argue that he's doing something wrong. I would say part of being a software engineer is being aware that your code could always be better and that are always some areas of knowledge that deserved more research, a context that makes the word success somewhat meaningless.
cudgy 4y ago
Software Engineer was already a questionable job title 20 years ago. Now it is even more questionable. Nothing against immersion bootcamps, but just because someone learned basics of a language and completed a few web pages or some microservices doesn’t mean they are equivalent to someone with a CS degree and years of experience developing side projects while in high school and college, which meets the profile of many CS grads.
roydivision 4y ago
There’s a difference between “How I successfully became a software engineer in 3 months” and “How I became a successful software engineer in 3 months”.

23 points by nateb2022 4y ago

> I believe everyone can be a developer if they put in the time and effort For a non-FAANG, absolutely. But for a FAANG after browsing Blind for a while, it's more about grinding Leetcode a few hours a day for 3-6 months :yikes:

6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago

I notice the 'success' is in the wrong place. More laudable would be 'How I became a successful software engineer in 3 months'.

OrangeMonkey 4y ago

I truly love success stories like this. We can make fun of bootcamps, but the people going into them are by-and-large trying to make themselves better than they are. Its the human condition and should be our goal.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
You cannot claim this with any certainty. I would counter-claim that many who go into developing are in it for the gold-rush mentality (I can get paid $$$) which ultimately lowers the quality of software. I'm not doubting there are those who go into it with good intentions but it's not something that is cut out for anyone and those who get into it because it's a bright, shiny object are doing themselves a disservice.
- OrangeMonkey 4y ago
  I respectfully disagree. I could disparage the reasons someone gets into programming (though, I think, money is a fine one), but if they then take positive actions to train, grow, learn then that is a net positive. Look, we all know people who complain but never fix things. I have family members who I dearly care about, but they would rather whine about X/Y than take a step to fix it (or fix themselves). Someone taking the time, for whatever reason, to become more than they were before is a net positive I think. Perhaps its more than you care to know, but its an important topic for me. I truly believe one of the reasons we are on this world is to become more and to grow. I appreciate people who try.
  - halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
    You're misrepresenting my sentiment. I support people trying, but it's annoying it see people portray themselves with what is obviously false confidence after going through a bootcamp, of which is talked to death on HN. That's great this person is trying to better themselves but they are at the very beginning of the long process of becoming an actual, productive software developer. I guess what really eats at me is the trivialization of software development and the hubris that a 3-month bootcamp can bring you to a place to "tackle anything you put your mind to" when that is the farthest from the truth.
- taurath 4y ago
  Most developers I know who are self taught have been passionate about building things for a long time and have been experimenting on their own time for a long time before they got their first SE role. Even with the potential financial rewards, the amount of learning one must do on one’s own time is too large for someone to just walk up to it. I find that there’s a lot of people with CS degrees like this though who just wanted that degree to make more money, and then find they really dislike the roles.
  - halfmatthalfcat 4y ago
    I am one of those people - no CS degree, self-taught and ground my way up to FAANG. Never once did I think I could "tackle any problem I could put my mind to" until around the 10 year mark.
    - taurath 4y ago
      I am the same (though I avoid FAANG for ethical purposes) - I don’t feel like it’s a reasonable statement to say anyone can tackle any problem, but within known domains there’s little that can’t be done given enough time
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
I would never make fun of bootcamps (my own journey has been ... "non-linear" ...), but I think that it is very important that people that attend them, have a mindset of "This is just the first rung of a very long ladder." I don't really appreciate recent bootcamp grads, lecturing me on how "I'm doing it wrong." The fault for this, usually falls on the bootcamp teachers, who present their information as "The One, True Way, and All Others Are Heathens that Will Burn In Hell." It's a great way to get the students pumped up and engaged, but has ... drawbacks, when in the work world. It depends on the mindset that we take with us, to our first job, and our eagerness to learn. I feel that bootcamps usually filter for people that are serious about bettering themselves, and also enforce a certain level of Discipline. My own schooling was at a "redneck" EET school. It was exactly the kind of thing that popped up in droves, after Vietnam, to mine the GI Bill, and folded, not too long, after. The school, itself, was no great shakes, but it taught me Discipline, and enforced a work ethic that still pays dividends, to this day, 40 years later. Welcome to Hell, kid. The learning never stops. Welcome to Heaven, kid. The learning never stops.
- taurath 4y ago
  OTOH, reducing complexity is one of the most important things in working on an engineering team. Having “one” way to do things rather than the nnn*n helps anyone new to be able to focus more on the system itself rather than picking up a new tool for every task. There’s 1000 ways to build something and the lack of structure makes people feel overwhelmed easily when trying to learn.

Kalanos 4y ago

you should probably avoid the term engineer and use "developer" instead, and "junior"

thro1 4y ago
It's just his imagination..
EddySchauHai 4y ago
> I was hired as a junior software engineer at a tech startup He says ‘Junior’ later on, and if his job role says software engineer he can use the term.
- kohanz 4y ago
  In his jurisdiction (NYC), probably. Not everywhere, even though in places where this is technically prohibited (e.g Canada), it is poorly enforced.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    Just because something is legal it does not mean it's reasonable.
    - EddySchauHai 4y ago
      Just because something isn’t reasonable doesn’t mean it isn’t correct. If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. Do I think it’s reasonable the term is used for people without professional experience or formal education? Not really. But that’s how it is and we shouldn’t put someone down (as OP seems to have done) because of it.
      - goodpoint 4y ago
        > If someone is hired as a software engineer and they refer to themselves as a software engineer, that’s their prerogative. No.

PenguinCoder 4y ago

Fluff article that seems to be just a dark pattern/undercover advertising for the boot camp. Not a whole lot of actual 'how' other than the basics of anything. Show up, do the work, and out effort into it. But mentions the boot camp six times.

tempe1h1 4y ago

I wouldn't think that 3 months is enough time to decide if success has been reached

trwhite 4y ago

Easy to get in. Hard to get out.

tiborsaas 4y ago
Let's just say that it's a difficult path towards woodworking.

halfmatthalfcat 4y ago

> In 3 short months, we learned everything necessary to become software engineers. I felt like I could achieve anything I put my mind to. Am I the only one who cringed at this? Dunning-Kruger would like a word. I've been developing for near a decade and am just realizing what it means to become a software engineer; and it's a whole lot more than just hands on keyboards.

commandlinefan 4y ago
> In 3 short months, we learned everything I've met, and worked with, people who thought like this - they always had a mind-boggling blind spot for their own failures. If they actually encountered something they were unable to do, or made a mistake, their brains would just seemingly erase any memory of the experience.
HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
The problem I see, especially for someone who is entering the field of software development, is the lack of critical thinking. If you think that you've learned everything needed to become a software engineer in three months, wouldn't it cause you to wonder why four-year programs exist? Has this ever occurred to OP?
- mrtranscendence 4y ago
  I suppose the counterargument would go something like: four-year degrees are full of cruft that has no impact on your ability to do software development work. That's undoubtedly the case to some extent; my extra year of French and my philosophy electives don't help me very much day-to-day. I bet you could condense a program down to something like 2-3 years, though I can't imagine how much someone has learnt in only 3 months.
  - freedom2099 4y ago
    I would argue that this is an issue of American colleges… in my home country (Italy) when you attend computer engineering university you only study engineering topics. No humanities at all.

pj_mukh 4y ago

I know several software engineers who look longingly at real-estate management and it’s default literal rent-seeking monetary rewards. Some have even taken the plunge. Nice to hear about someone going the other way.

designium 4y ago

A lot of people from HN have no CS or engineering background and we can still make a living in the tech world in technical fields. I think more people should be encouraged to try and jump into tech career if they have the time and resources and encourage them to do; salaries are higher and demand for talents are still pretty high. It can be a life changing experience. Stop bitching if the OP is a jr / developer or whatsoever. He got a tech job anyway. We should clap for him not be pedantic about it.

mytailorisrich 4y ago

Happy for him if that went well and he got a job out of it, but: >In 3 short months, we learned everything necessary to become software engineers. Just 'no'. This is a case of not knowing what you don't know.

DogLover_ 4y ago

Must admit I find it discouraging that I spend years in university years ago when people now just finish some self-learned material in a matter of a few months. It is only getting simpler every year. I don't see the future being bright for this discipline if the sentiment is that that is all it takes.

joshmanders 4y ago
> I don't see the future being bright for this discipline if the sentiment is that that is all it takes. Building web apps isn't rocket science lol. You're just positioning divs on a screen and building basic CRUD apps. You can indeed learn most of what you need in 3 months. The rest is learned with experience in the real world.
- Cwizard 4y ago
  Exactly I think there are different types of jobs. If you just need to make a basic web site I am sure you can learn those skills in a few months. Being able to build real systems is another matter entirely and requires a lot of learning (formal or not) and years of experience. For me this is the difference between a developer and a software engineer.
sktrdie 4y ago
Not sure why you find it discouraging. Having a degree means you probably went through a more formal process and were exposed to a more academic-way of studying things which can benefit your career as well as your personal life. Knowledge is always good!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
huimang 4y ago
Code monkeys are different than programmers (or "software engineers"). Nobody is learning, actually learning, all these topics in a condensed 3-month program. Good programmers are always going to have work, because there simply aren't enough good programmers.

otras 4y ago

The most important part is missing from the article: how they found and got accepted for the first job. The hardest part of switching isn’t attending the bootcamp, it’s finding a company that is willing to take a chance on your lack of experience and future growth potential. Doubly so for switching into the industry during Q3 of 2020 and fully remote. Did they get extremely lucky? Did they go to school with the hiring manager? Was it something in between? Articles like this are appealing because they paint a rosy picture of easily jumping into it, but in reality, it’s usually much harder. Those details matter.

jriggs 4y ago
True. I have experience working as an instructor at a bootcamp. I've had the opportunity to learn more about bootcamps as an industry....The best bootcamps (highest placement rates) without fail offer a career services portion as well. That gives you interview prep, LinkedIn support, resume building and most importantly networking with hiring partners. I have no doubt someone can become a dev in from no experience in 3 months, because I've seen it happen personally hundreds of times. But without the career services it is far more difficult to break in.
taurath 4y ago
Correct. I am self taught but it is only through my somewhat relevant experience as a project manager and in IT that a company would even give me an internship based on a small demo and a recommendation from a lead engineer that I had promise. I have no idea if I would have been able to “break in” otherwise. They paid me next to nothing and I could afford that. It’s a lot of privilege and luck that got me in. I don’t recommend others try to follow my path, but I also wish it were easier to do so. After a year of experience I was getting legit decent offers - initially almost entirely via referral. I stayed around the initial company because I was still learning a lot. Many years later I am a senior engineer. The world does open after the first job but getting the first one is hell. Don’t underestimate the class signaling that companies and hiring managers look for. Being some person with a portfolio and no experience almost never seems to make anyone take notice or consider an interview. I haven’t figured out how one would best repeat what I did - there’s lots of very viable and capable (and diverse!) people I know who’ve never been given the chance. I’d love if there were companies that offered apprenticeships - plenty of people out there would take low pay to get some real experience.

HidyBush 4y ago

"How I successfully became a civil engineer in 3 months" Brrrrr. Why the hell this is allowed when talking about software is beyond me.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
language evolves, but professional societies are important for workers, I think it will take a bigger revolution for workers to re-frame the term again given the now-standard title inflation to software engineer across industry, even here in canada
sdoering 4y ago
My thoughts exactly.
hotpotamus 4y ago
Because people expect bridges to work and software to fail.
huimang 4y ago
Because the term [junior/senior] software engineer doesn't mean anything. If you have a laptop, congrats you're now a software engineer.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  If you have a laptop you have the tool you need to write software. But that does not mean that you have the skills and expertise to practise engineering applied to building software products within strict constraints. Similarly, woodworking tools do not make one a carpenter.
- soco 4y ago
  They should call themselves "programmers" - if they can actually do the job of programming what they have been taught in that bootcamp (and it looks they can, being employed now). But engineering is a well defined term and sometimes even protected in many other places. I work with people of all kind of backgrounds, but you can definitely notice the difference in feedback you receive from somebody with a university background (which I would call engineer).

ichbinlegion 4y ago

I don't have formal CS education, but I've been working as a developer for 25 years. In the firm I've been in that last 15 years, only developers with 10+ years of experience actually make a difference. Others are either still learning, or just doing menial work. It makes me a bit sad this trend of "become a developer in 3 months". It's just a dream.

johnthewise 4y ago
There are plenty of web dev work around and you don't need 10+ years of experience to do it.
- ichbinlegion 4y ago
  Do you understand that is just intern-level work?
  - mrtranscendence 4y ago
    TIL that there are only interns and people with 10+ years of experience.
    - ichbinlegion 4y ago
      TIL I can become a surgeon with a 3 months bootcamp
      - mrtranscendence 4y ago
        I'm not arguing that someone with a 3 month bootcamp is going to be a highly-qualified, productive software developer. But 10+ years to get to a productive state? That's not my experience, and I don't think that's because all the work I've ever been exposed to is "intern-level".
  - Server6 4y ago
    It's still work and needs done. How do you expect someone to get "25 years of experience" without giving them work to do?

soneca 4y ago

It took me 8 months for my first job as software developer when I was 37yo, self-taught. I wrote about the decision, the learning process, the job hunt, if anyone is interested. https://rodrigohgpontes.github.io/ https://rodrigohgpontes.github.io/

wahnfrieden 4y ago

>I am 24 years old and I'm ashamed to say my goal used to be to make as much money as possible. Why do workers feel and express this shame, but owners are no target of it outside of blatant abuse cases? It's a sick trick against workers

sfortis 4y ago

to me, seems like an app academy social ad

confident_inept 4y ago

At a very young age I ventured into taking apart my personal computer to better understand it. When I was in my early teens I could build a whole computer with off-the-shelf parts without any help. My older peers would poke at me for being some sort of "tech wizard" because computers were something a lot of the older generation didn't grow up with at the time. I would take every opportunity to show interested parties just how straightforward it was that I did; Certain cards fit in certain slots, cables only fit in one way, and there were a few internals you had to be a little more careful with than others. Many of those people were surprised to see just how simple "building a computer" was, more akin to building Lego than something that needed a college degree and high amounts of technical skill. Code boot camps tend to be a bit one-dimensional and only give the students a slice of the basics, most often including setting up a work environment and focusing on lessons that produce immediate results and/or feedback. People interested in software development don't realize how easy it can be to get started making small projects, often needing their hand held at that critical entry point. Boot camps can help lift the veil of mysticism and show that software development isn't sorcery.

fimdomeio 4y ago

"Successfully becoming a software engineer in 3 months" is a sign that one is not yet aware of all the things he doesn't know. If, as it looks like, he's writing this two years after that experience and still does not feel a little bit of that imposters syndrome, than I would argue that he's doing something wrong. I would say part of being a software engineer is being aware that your code could always be better and that are always some areas of knowledge that deserved more research, a context that makes the word success somewhat meaningless.

cudgy 4y ago

Software Engineer was already a questionable job title 20 years ago. Now it is even more questionable. Nothing against immersion bootcamps, but just because someone learned basics of a language and completed a few web pages or some microservices doesn’t mean they are equivalent to someone with a CS degree and years of experience developing side projects while in high school and college, which meets the profile of many CS grads.

roydivision 4y ago

There’s a difference between “How I successfully became a software engineer in 3 months” and “How I became a successful software engineer in 3 months”.