14 ms·

It is highly unethical to take away copies of the game that players had to pay full price for. Stadia owes them a retail copy of the games they purchased.

hprotagonist 4y ago
of games they purchased temporary license to use* no games were actually purchased, so customers are free to take their complaints and do exactly nothing with them. (yes, this is egregious)
- Ken_At_EM 4y ago
  Yeah, I hear ya, better read the agreements you sign. But I just can’t convince myself to pay full price for a game when it’s restricted to a platform like stadia. I guess I’m a hypocrite because I own steam games and plenty of movies on my Apple TV. I feel like steam is a little different because I’m installing them on my own machine? (I know they can take the games away) I know I can’t trust Apple to not take my movies away but I think the likelihood that my Apple TV library won’t be accessible for the next 20 years is pretty low. Google in particular disappoints me often. They haven’t created a great money generating product since search/ads which is the evergreen money tree which funds all other experiments. Google gives up on new products far too often and far too easily. They seem to forget, or never learned, that unwavering persistence is a powerful foundation for building a product line. Apple didn’t give up on iCloud after the disaster that was MobileMe, they rebuilt it and kept on going.
londons_explore 4y ago
I suspect they'll just refund all users that complain. Adoption of stadia was sufficiently small that Google will pay the full refund cost just to prevent PR damage or lawsuit losses (and take the loss themselves, because the game developer isn't going to want to give a refund).
- clessg 4y ago
  > I suspect they'll just refund all users that complain. Problem is, it's Google. Who are you going to complain to, and where? You'll be lucky if there's even a way to submit a complaint, much less one that gets read by a human. I suppose you could use the good old Tell HN technique!
  - Hamuko 4y ago
    Google One customers should at least have some kind of a live chat available.
  - rand0mx1 4y ago
    maybe on twitter
FVYPblNGl7R9ZAc 4y ago
That is how all of this works. If Valve went out of business then you wouldn't have any legal right or way to get the games you purchased on Steam. If Amazon shut down Prime Video then you couldn't watch the movies you purchased on it. This is not a unique problem to Google Stadia.
- tokai 4y ago
  You would still have your games files and be able to run them. Steam is not a rental or streaming service.
  - delecti 4y ago
    Many/most Steam games use Steam servers to authenticate ownership. It's a store, but it's also a DRM provider. Many games would require cracking to keep working.
    - tokai 4y ago
      >most Steam games use Steam servers to authenticate ownership Not true. Maybe if you mainly play ubisoft tiles.
      - delecti 4y ago
        Can you be more specific or offer any evidence? That Valve offers DRM through Steam is unambiguously true. Here's their developer document on it: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm And here's a list of games which are sold through Steam but which nonetheless do not use Steam DRM: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_g... Why would such a list be necessary if games sold through Steam that used Steam DRM were the minority?
      - Karunamon 4y ago
        Any game using Steamworks behaves this way, which is a pretty massive chunk of them. Ubisoft uses their own DRM which is an entirely different system. I think what you may be saying is the behavior if you open a Steamworks game while Steam is opened, it just executes as normal. Any authentication or nonsense happens in the background. Try opening a Steamworks game with steam closed, it will force steam to open and login before the game can be played.
999900000999 4y ago
I strongly suspect just to avoid backlash they'll refund people. But technically when you buy a game you're not really buying a game anymore, there's no physical item purchased. You're merely purchasing a temporary non-transferable license to use it. Back in the '90s if I gave you a Game boy game, it now belonged to you. I guess if I started a company renting them out Nintendo could sue me for copyright infringement though. Now when I download a game, I'm merely permitted temporary usage. I can't give it to you
- bbatchelder 4y ago
  Blockbuster Video used to rent game cartridges/CDs and even consoles.
- jsiepkes 4y ago
  Though it would be a total scumbag move not to compensate people whatsoever it might be a "good" scorched earth tactic. It ensures consumers will probably think even harder before adopting such a service. Meaning it will be even harder for competitors to succeed where Google themselves failed. Then again you will need to be sure never wanting to return to that particular market.... > Back in the '90s if I gave you a Game boy game, it now belonged to you. Fip side is that if you lost the cartridge or it broke you had to buy it again. Granted, that almost never happened.
  - barbazoo 4y ago
    > It ensures consumers will probably think even harder before adopting such a service. The few that used the service maybe. Most people have never heard of it.
okwubodu 4y ago
What we need is a portable digital license. Like a card we can store in a sort of internet wallet and present to storefronts to get access to a game. That way publishers wouldn’t be able to bully customers to the extent they currently do. No way the gaming community would be opposed to such a thing.
- jack_pp 4y ago
  didn't we already have that for certain games? I remember when I bought WoW in 2010 it came with a code. If I wanted to reinstall the game I would put in the same code, this was before battle.net client.
- emanuele232 4y ago
  nft non ironically?
  - spaceman_2020 4y ago
    HN hates crypto too much to realize the importance of self ownership and custody.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- mehlmao 4y ago
  Publishers and developers wouldn't sign onto that because they don't want a resale market. How would you convince them to support that?
  - closedloop129 4y ago
    Make the license non-transferable. Then there is no resale market.
- Ken_At_EM 4y ago
  It is a little absurd that I could have to repurchase each game on each console / platform. I’d be willing to pay a game developer a premium for a universal license that works on all platforms. Steam, Switch, Stadia, etc for example. I bet they’d make more revenue this way than from the people who just rebuy the game multiple times.
thrownaways12 4y ago
topkai22 4y ago
Other big tech platforms have chosen to do full refunds when they shutdown. I'm thinking in particular of Microsoft- when they shut down their eBooks division, they issued a full refund for all their books and when they shut down Kinect fitness* they gave on platform credit for paid workouts. I do wish that a major government would pass a law to this effect- if you advertise something as "buy", "purchase", or "own" then you need to have and execute on a plan to ensure access in perpetuity, even if you go out of business. * XBox fitness remains the best product I've ever used that didn't make it in the market.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
Not your disc, not your game.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

hprotagonist 4y ago

of games they purchased temporary license to use* no games were actually purchased, so customers are free to take their complaints and do exactly nothing with them. (yes, this is egregious)

Ken_At_EM 4y ago
Yeah, I hear ya, better read the agreements you sign. But I just can’t convince myself to pay full price for a game when it’s restricted to a platform like stadia. I guess I’m a hypocrite because I own steam games and plenty of movies on my Apple TV. I feel like steam is a little different because I’m installing them on my own machine? (I know they can take the games away) I know I can’t trust Apple to not take my movies away but I think the likelihood that my Apple TV library won’t be accessible for the next 20 years is pretty low. Google in particular disappoints me often. They haven’t created a great money generating product since search/ads which is the evergreen money tree which funds all other experiments. Google gives up on new products far too often and far too easily. They seem to forget, or never learned, that unwavering persistence is a powerful foundation for building a product line. Apple didn’t give up on iCloud after the disaster that was MobileMe, they rebuilt it and kept on going.

londons_explore 4y ago

I suspect they'll just refund all users that complain. Adoption of stadia was sufficiently small that Google will pay the full refund cost just to prevent PR damage or lawsuit losses (and take the loss themselves, because the game developer isn't going to want to give a refund).

clessg 4y ago
> I suspect they'll just refund all users that complain. Problem is, it's Google. Who are you going to complain to, and where? You'll be lucky if there's even a way to submit a complaint, much less one that gets read by a human. I suppose you could use the good old Tell HN technique!
- Hamuko 4y ago
  Google One customers should at least have some kind of a live chat available.
- rand0mx1 4y ago
  maybe on twitter

FVYPblNGl7R9ZAc 4y ago

That is how all of this works. If Valve went out of business then you wouldn't have any legal right or way to get the games you purchased on Steam. If Amazon shut down Prime Video then you couldn't watch the movies you purchased on it. This is not a unique problem to Google Stadia.

tokai 4y ago
You would still have your games files and be able to run them. Steam is not a rental or streaming service.
- delecti 4y ago
  Many/most Steam games use Steam servers to authenticate ownership. It's a store, but it's also a DRM provider. Many games would require cracking to keep working.
  - tokai 4y ago
    >most Steam games use Steam servers to authenticate ownership Not true. Maybe if you mainly play ubisoft tiles.
    - delecti 4y ago
      Can you be more specific or offer any evidence? That Valve offers DRM through Steam is unambiguously true. Here's their developer document on it: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm And here's a list of games which are sold through Steam but which nonetheless do not use Steam DRM: https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_g... Why would such a list be necessary if games sold through Steam that used Steam DRM were the minority?
    - Karunamon 4y ago
      Any game using Steamworks behaves this way, which is a pretty massive chunk of them. Ubisoft uses their own DRM which is an entirely different system. I think what you may be saying is the behavior if you open a Steamworks game while Steam is opened, it just executes as normal. Any authentication or nonsense happens in the background. Try opening a Steamworks game with steam closed, it will force steam to open and login before the game can be played.

999900000999 4y ago

I strongly suspect just to avoid backlash they'll refund people. But technically when you buy a game you're not really buying a game anymore, there's no physical item purchased. You're merely purchasing a temporary non-transferable license to use it. Back in the '90s if I gave you a Game boy game, it now belonged to you. I guess if I started a company renting them out Nintendo could sue me for copyright infringement though. Now when I download a game, I'm merely permitted temporary usage. I can't give it to you

bbatchelder 4y ago
Blockbuster Video used to rent game cartridges/CDs and even consoles.
jsiepkes 4y ago
Though it would be a total scumbag move not to compensate people whatsoever it might be a "good" scorched earth tactic. It ensures consumers will probably think even harder before adopting such a service. Meaning it will be even harder for competitors to succeed where Google themselves failed. Then again you will need to be sure never wanting to return to that particular market.... > Back in the '90s if I gave you a Game boy game, it now belonged to you. Fip side is that if you lost the cartridge or it broke you had to buy it again. Granted, that almost never happened.
- barbazoo 4y ago
  > It ensures consumers will probably think even harder before adopting such a service. The few that used the service maybe. Most people have never heard of it.

okwubodu 4y ago

What we need is a portable digital license. Like a card we can store in a sort of internet wallet and present to storefronts to get access to a game. That way publishers wouldn’t be able to bully customers to the extent they currently do. No way the gaming community would be opposed to such a thing.

jack_pp 4y ago
didn't we already have that for certain games? I remember when I bought WoW in 2010 it came with a code. If I wanted to reinstall the game I would put in the same code, this was before battle.net client.
emanuele232 4y ago
nft non ironically?
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  HN hates crypto too much to realize the importance of self ownership and custody.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mehlmao 4y ago
Publishers and developers wouldn't sign onto that because they don't want a resale market. How would you convince them to support that?
- closedloop129 4y ago
  Make the license non-transferable. Then there is no resale market.
Ken_At_EM 4y ago
It is a little absurd that I could have to repurchase each game on each console / platform. I’d be willing to pay a game developer a premium for a universal license that works on all platforms. Steam, Switch, Stadia, etc for example. I bet they’d make more revenue this way than from the people who just rebuy the game multiple times.

thrownaways12 4y ago

topkai22 4y ago

Other big tech platforms have chosen to do full refunds when they shutdown. I'm thinking in particular of Microsoft- when they shut down their eBooks division, they issued a full refund for all their books and when they shut down Kinect fitness* they gave on platform credit for paid workouts. I do wish that a major government would pass a law to this effect- if you advertise something as "buy", "purchase", or "own" then you need to have and execute on a plan to ensure access in perpetuity, even if you go out of business. * XBox fitness remains the best product I've ever used that didn't make it in the market.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

Not your disc, not your game.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]