7 ms·

What I always loved about Yugoslavia was the freedom. You couldn't criticize the party but everything else was free. I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a

What I always loved about Yugoslavia was the freedom. You couldn't criticize the party but everything else was free. I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. You could drive a light motorbike, no helm, no license. The food was natural. You could sleep anywhere without anyone bothering you or having to be afraid that someone would steal from you. I just can't explain the freedom by mere examples. Likewise if you try to tell the young Croats about the freedom, they don't believe you. They're indoctrinated in school with hate for Serbs. How can you tell a blind man the beauty of colors? You had to experience it to understand it.

rmbyrro 4y ago
> I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. I hope we can have a civil disagreement on this, without personal resentments. This is indeed freedom, and I don't approve of violent and repressive regimes to change people's behavior. Yet, this is not positive from my point of view. Doing this makes me closer to animals, farther from human. Humans have the freedom to live different from animals. A tiger simply don't think whether the way it lives and kills prey is ethical. Humans can and do. Animals don't have intimacy. They just do their stuff wherever they are. Humans have the freedom to look for and build intimacy. So, although what you described is indeed freedom, it's not the behavior I want for myself. I wouldn't promote it, because it goes against the direction I would be happy to see other humans moving. And I wouldn't like to live in places that go against it as well. That's just my personal freedom of thinking and judging what I see, not that I'll negate it by forcing others to live my way.
- philpem 4y ago
  If only more people were able to 'agree to disagree'.
- dalbasal 4y ago
  I disagree entirely. First, the notion that someone somewhere in society doing porn is bad for the society itself. The desire to shave off societies' "stray hairs" is deeply immoral. It has always has been, but that does not make it right. Second, I strongly disagree that carefree attitudes towards sex/nudity is automatically dehumanising, animalistic or objectifying. Sexuality, the human body, etc. This stuff is deeply human. See: 100 thousand years of art history. Last... what is this animal-human dichotomy anyway. Humans are animals. Is childbirth or breastfeeding "farther from human and closer to animal?" These are as viscerally mammalian as key parties on a Wednesday.
  - rmbyrro 4y ago
    Hey, thanks for adding more perspective to the discussion. I think these are points to meditate on. Clarifying, I didn't mean to express animal/human as a dichotomy. I see it more as a spectrum. We surely have a LOT in common with animals, but it's also evident that we have the freedom to face everything we do in a different way. Some animals will stop feeding their cubs to concentrate only on the strongest one. They will also stop feeding a cub if it's anomalous (i.e. physiological malformation). On this matter, humans used to behave exactly as animals in ancient Greece (i.e. in Sparta). But we chose to live in a better way. We chose it is superior to use our faculties and ingenuity to be able to feed typical babies without sacrificing the atypical ones. So, yes, for sure, we feed our babies. But we don't have to do it the same way as animals. Animals evolve slowly, pushed by nature. Humans can decide to evolve by their own volition. That's where I draw a line between humans and other animals. Perhaps one day we will have evolved to deserve our own kingdom. As we behave right now, I agree with you that we're still much closer to the animal kingdom than anything superior...
    - trasz 4y ago
      Your argument is fine as advocacy for contraception, abortion and sexual health in general, but I don’t see how it’s related to nudity. Especially given that the problems with nudity often correlate with problems with remaining sexual health aspects, ie are being promoted by institutions that equate human sexuality with that of cattle, namely the Catholic Church.
- speed_spread 4y ago
  I believe what OP meant is that there was no media censorship other than political.
  - credit_guy 4y ago
    And I think the responder is arguing that some media censorship is consistent with the concept of freedom. My freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins, the saying goes. I don't like to turn on the TV and get porn content, and especially I don't like my children to be exposed to that content. I'm not opposed to porn content to exist, as long as it is somehow ringfenced from the access of minors. A majority of the population in the US agrees with this stance. Putting porn out in the open is like swinging a fist in their nose. It's not freedom, it's aggression. If this argument feels unconvincing to you, just replace "porn" with "Holocaust denying propaganda", and read it again.
    - kugla 4y ago
      Comparing 'Holocaust denying propaganda' with healthy sexual activity (this is what OP is talking about) explains a lot about US puritanism.
    - orwin 4y ago
      I do feel 'porn' as it is understood now is vastly different than what was talked about in the og comment. I've seen porn and I've seen videos of people faking sex on tv as a teenager (erotic movement and nudity, not allow under 16 in my country at the time). The original comment was probably talking about the second one, where the erotism come from the touch, eyes and behavior (and genitalia and boobs, tbh). I agree that most pornography I've seen was too violent and/or disturbing to be on tv(I'm not a consumer, never was really, but i think in my group of friends, Rick roll included porn gif/videos). Erotica however, i wouldn't bat an eye even if showed during the day.
    - speed_spread 4y ago
      Although lacking nuance, your point is clear and there was no need for that dubious holocaust switcheroo you did at did the end. Keep in mind that there is a vast zone between showing a couple holding hand and random people straight out fucking. What's missing on TV and the Internet these days are tasteful and varying depiction of people expressing their love in wholesome ways. People need references as to what is normal and not shameful. Banning _every_ depiction of physical emotional engagement is certainly not the way to go.
- deleted 4y ago
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- deleted 4y ago
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- 2143 4y ago
  Disagree. You need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. What's right from a human's point of view may not necessarily be right from nature's point of view. > A tiger simply don't think whether the way it lives and kills prey is ethical. Even thinking about whether a tigers' behavior is ethical is missing the point. Tigers do what they do. Accept it. It's not "wrong". > Animals don't have intimacy. They just do their stuff wherever they are. Depends on the animal. Elephants tend to live in close-knit families. You should go observe a bird (such as a crow) feeding its young one. Such a lovely sight. > it's not the behavior I want for myself. I wouldn't promote it, because it goes against the direction I would be happy to see other humans moving You've been conditioned to think that that's a better way to live. It may not be. Here's what we "civilized" humans have collectively done: 1. Wrecked nature and have already caused much damage. 2. Kill animals for sport/entertainment ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Tigers hunt for survival!) 3. Colonized and plundered places and were brutal to the natives of those places. 4. Wars. 5. Even if not a colonialist — some humans have killed other humans, and many others have hatched plans to make others' lives miserable. You see this across the world. Wearing a tuxedo doesn't mean they're good for the world. Think about it this way — the world would be a better place (combined, for the entire life on Earth) if there were no humans at all. Naturists are the least of the world's problems.
donretag 4y ago
"Bila jednom jedna zemlja Once upon a time there was a country" (wish I could find the full transcript)
medo-bear 4y ago
> Likewise if you try to tell the young Croats about the freedom, they don't believe you. They're indoctrinated in school with hate for Serbs i will happily disagree with you. actually just right now my friends from belgrade have come to visit me. in the last period there have been growing number of interactions between serbs and croats, particularly amongst the youngest adult generation correct me if im wrong but from personal experience i believe you no longer live here and base your perception on the diaspora. i find people in the diaspora to be way more nationalistic than people here (here = ex-yugand exceptions always exist) and perhaps thats why you are saying that. but its too simplistic and very incorrect to say that about younger generations here also dont forget that many croats have grandparents who were in the partizans ;) we know quite a bit about yugoslavia (positives and negatives)
mrtksn 4y ago
I know what you mean, when I go to Bulgaria I still get this strange sense of freedom. I remember when I was a kid, completely normal TV channels turning to a porn channel exactly at 00:00. I think it is not happening anymore, the last time I witnessed this was maybe 5 years ago. The life feels natural, undesigned and unengineered. You don't feel like you have a mission, you can do whatever you want to do or not do anything or do the bere minimum if that's your thing. If you don't want to see nudity on TV, don't look. If you think that kids shouldn't see nudity on TV, don't let them. The state is not responsible for rising you or your kids. An argument against this lifestyle is that it makes people unambitious. I don't agree, the passionate people can follow their passion. Sedentary lifestyle is not the norm at all. For contrast, in UK it feels like you have to do something productive and reap the opportunities but be very careful(life is work). It Turkey it feels like you have very little wiggle room and have not much say in the flow of life(you are a visitor and the hosts have a plan). In Germany it feels like you need to fulfil your duties then find your place in the world(you are at school).
- watwut 4y ago
  > If you think that kids shouldn't see nudity on TV, don't let them. The state is not responsible for rising you or your kids. The switch to porn at midnight happened because state was actually restricting content. Kids entertainment was also controlled a lot. > An argument against this lifestyle is that it makes people unambitious But it does. Communism made people more passive in non private areas of life. Post communist setup less so, but still too due to corruption and criminality that endangered active people.
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    This doesn't have anything to do with communism and the not showing porn when kids are typically around is about accommodating the parents. The difference is that the state doesn't try to control it(like UK where the state tries to implement ID verification for porn) but accommodate it. The society is not alarmist and absolutist, though the general consensus is that kids shouldn't be exposed to porn. It's a subtle difference, hard to explain of you don't have the experience. It's not something in the laws, it's the attitude.
jskrablin 4y ago
When some (in this case Communist) party controls all of the aspects of public life and you cannot criticize it ... I wouldn't call that freedom. In fact, Yugoslavia was a one party dictatorship. Some soft porn on TV (probably in the 1980s) or ability to 'sleep anywhere' doesn't really change that.
- orwin 4y ago
  Let's say that freedom is too big of a word and mean a lot of different things, so let's adjective it. Let's call it political freedom. Do having almost no political freedom in the society you live in prevent you from enjoying other freedom? Well, asking myself the question makes me believe my first thought was wrong and that you are right. Which is weird because I also still believe GP is right too about his feeling of freedom. I'll escape with this maybe you agree: as a kid, you are not really a part of the society yet, your parents handle this for you(taxes, responsibility in case of crime, but also voting). So the lack of political freedom, as long as it didn't came with a lack of mean, didn't impact GP as much as it would an adult. The policed society can then allows you more 'freedom' (which i cannot really define).
temp 4y ago
>You couldn't criticize the party but everything else was free. Politics wasn't free nor was there economic freedom. There's a reason why this Island had temporary visitors :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_Otok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_Otok Among them, not just political dissidents, people who touched on subjects they weren't supposed to touch on be it in social sciences, economics, art. >You could drive a light motorbike, no helm, no license. >The food was natural. You could sleep anywhere without anyone bothering you or having to be afraid that someone would steal from you. Seems like you're just rendering a nostalgic view of the past common just about everywhere.
paulette449 4y ago
> They're indoctrinated in school with hate for Serbs It seems like you are betraying a personal bias here. Do you have anything to support this comment? Isn't it more likely that their parents, whether Serb or Croat, have shared their personal experiences/perspectives of the Bosnian War [0] in the mid-nineties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War
smugma 4y ago
I work in California but we have a good sized team (~100) in the former Yugoslavia. The lead person in CA is Bosnian, most of the people we work with are in Serbia, but one team is in North Macedonia. The way the head Bosnian guy explains it to me is that it’s all about money. People want to be able to eat, buy a car, take a vacation. If they paid well, everyone gets along, there’s no politics involved. This was really surprising for me to hear. My best friend growing up was Serbian, one of my best friends in college was Croatian. It seemed all they did was talk politics. The Serbian would claim they were being bullied by the world for pushing unity, the Croatian about atrocities. Here, in Silicon Valley, an actual refugee from the minority group, was looking above it all. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it in the daily interactions of these different ethnic groups. It’s strange but also amazing. My colleague should figure out how to apply his work hard, get paid friendly attitude to create world peace.
- throwaytheignor 4y ago
  What is he going to say to you? That the Serb committed mass genocide etc. The guy is here and has to make a living and not create enemies above his pay grade. Saying as someone who has met many Bosnians with severe PTSD who were there at that time.
  - smugma 4y ago
    Ya, he could say that. Or he could just not talk about it. He could also not go on trips and recruit Serbians to work for him. Before I got to know him, I assumed that he was the same ethnicity/religion as the huge teams he was overseeing, but that wasn't the case. We have talked about how hard it was for him as a refugee to come to the US when he was a child, and now he's explaining to his 9 year old the Ukrainian refugees remind him of his own experience growing up. It seems like he genuinely doesn't care for identity politics and is looking for good people to work with. Most likely he's in the minority and maybe left at a young enough age where he didn't see and experience some of the things that the Bosnians with PTSD did.
desireco42 4y ago
I can confirm what you are saying, it is hard to explain with examples, but we were just free unlike most other places. One thing about naturist beaches and how that resonated, there is/was a belief that especially for the kids, you should allow them to run naked and swim naked in the sea. When they get older, once they learn to be shy, they would be clothed, but when they are kids and innocent, they should be free to go how they want ie. naked.
rospaya 4y ago
Or you're idolising your own childhood, like everyone else does? And also I don't see what does not wearing a helmet have to do with hating Serbs, but I don't get the rest of it either.

rmbyrro 4y ago

> I was 13, at 11am I watched TV and saw a music clip where the content was 2 people fucking and smiling while doing so. They were having fun. I hope we can have a civil disagreement on this, without personal resentments. This is indeed freedom, and I don't approve of violent and repressive regimes to change people's behavior. Yet, this is not positive from my point of view. Doing this makes me closer to animals, farther from human. Humans have the freedom to live different from animals. A tiger simply don't think whether the way it lives and kills prey is ethical. Humans can and do. Animals don't have intimacy. They just do their stuff wherever they are. Humans have the freedom to look for and build intimacy. So, although what you described is indeed freedom, it's not the behavior I want for myself. I wouldn't promote it, because it goes against the direction I would be happy to see other humans moving. And I wouldn't like to live in places that go against it as well. That's just my personal freedom of thinking and judging what I see, not that I'll negate it by forcing others to live my way.

philpem 4y ago
If only more people were able to 'agree to disagree'.
dalbasal 4y ago
I disagree entirely. First, the notion that someone somewhere in society doing porn is bad for the society itself. The desire to shave off societies' "stray hairs" is deeply immoral. It has always has been, but that does not make it right. Second, I strongly disagree that carefree attitudes towards sex/nudity is automatically dehumanising, animalistic or objectifying. Sexuality, the human body, etc. This stuff is deeply human. See: 100 thousand years of art history. Last... what is this animal-human dichotomy anyway. Humans are animals. Is childbirth or breastfeeding "farther from human and closer to animal?" These are as viscerally mammalian as key parties on a Wednesday.
- rmbyrro 4y ago
  Hey, thanks for adding more perspective to the discussion. I think these are points to meditate on. Clarifying, I didn't mean to express animal/human as a dichotomy. I see it more as a spectrum. We surely have a LOT in common with animals, but it's also evident that we have the freedom to face everything we do in a different way. Some animals will stop feeding their cubs to concentrate only on the strongest one. They will also stop feeding a cub if it's anomalous (i.e. physiological malformation). On this matter, humans used to behave exactly as animals in ancient Greece (i.e. in Sparta). But we chose to live in a better way. We chose it is superior to use our faculties and ingenuity to be able to feed typical babies without sacrificing the atypical ones. So, yes, for sure, we feed our babies. But we don't have to do it the same way as animals. Animals evolve slowly, pushed by nature. Humans can decide to evolve by their own volition. That's where I draw a line between humans and other animals. Perhaps one day we will have evolved to deserve our own kingdom. As we behave right now, I agree with you that we're still much closer to the animal kingdom than anything superior...
  - trasz 4y ago
    Your argument is fine as advocacy for contraception, abortion and sexual health in general, but I don’t see how it’s related to nudity. Especially given that the problems with nudity often correlate with problems with remaining sexual health aspects, ie are being promoted by institutions that equate human sexuality with that of cattle, namely the Catholic Church.
speed_spread 4y ago
I believe what OP meant is that there was no media censorship other than political.
- credit_guy 4y ago
  And I think the responder is arguing that some media censorship is consistent with the concept of freedom. My freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins, the saying goes. I don't like to turn on the TV and get porn content, and especially I don't like my children to be exposed to that content. I'm not opposed to porn content to exist, as long as it is somehow ringfenced from the access of minors. A majority of the population in the US agrees with this stance. Putting porn out in the open is like swinging a fist in their nose. It's not freedom, it's aggression. If this argument feels unconvincing to you, just replace "porn" with "Holocaust denying propaganda", and read it again.
  - kugla 4y ago
    Comparing 'Holocaust denying propaganda' with healthy sexual activity (this is what OP is talking about) explains a lot about US puritanism.
  - orwin 4y ago
    I do feel 'porn' as it is understood now is vastly different than what was talked about in the og comment. I've seen porn and I've seen videos of people faking sex on tv as a teenager (erotic movement and nudity, not allow under 16 in my country at the time). The original comment was probably talking about the second one, where the erotism come from the touch, eyes and behavior (and genitalia and boobs, tbh). I agree that most pornography I've seen was too violent and/or disturbing to be on tv(I'm not a consumer, never was really, but i think in my group of friends, Rick roll included porn gif/videos). Erotica however, i wouldn't bat an eye even if showed during the day.
  - speed_spread 4y ago
    Although lacking nuance, your point is clear and there was no need for that dubious holocaust switcheroo you did at did the end. Keep in mind that there is a vast zone between showing a couple holding hand and random people straight out fucking. What's missing on TV and the Internet these days are tasteful and varying depiction of people expressing their love in wholesome ways. People need references as to what is normal and not shameful. Banning _every_ depiction of physical emotional engagement is certainly not the way to go.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
2143 4y ago
Disagree. You need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. What's right from a human's point of view may not necessarily be right from nature's point of view. > A tiger simply don't think whether the way it lives and kills prey is ethical. Even thinking about whether a tigers' behavior is ethical is missing the point. Tigers do what they do. Accept it. It's not "wrong". > Animals don't have intimacy. They just do their stuff wherever they are. Depends on the animal. Elephants tend to live in close-knit families. You should go observe a bird (such as a crow) feeding its young one. Such a lovely sight. > it's not the behavior I want for myself. I wouldn't promote it, because it goes against the direction I would be happy to see other humans moving You've been conditioned to think that that's a better way to live. It may not be. Here's what we "civilized" humans have collectively done: 1. Wrecked nature and have already caused much damage. 2. Kill animals for sport/entertainment ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (Tigers hunt for survival!) 3. Colonized and plundered places and were brutal to the natives of those places. 4. Wars. 5. Even if not a colonialist — some humans have killed other humans, and many others have hatched plans to make others' lives miserable. You see this across the world. Wearing a tuxedo doesn't mean they're good for the world. Think about it this way — the world would be a better place (combined, for the entire life on Earth) if there were no humans at all. Naturists are the least of the world's problems.

donretag 4y ago

"Bila jednom jedna zemlja Once upon a time there was a country" (wish I could find the full transcript)

medo-bear 4y ago

> Likewise if you try to tell the young Croats about the freedom, they don't believe you. They're indoctrinated in school with hate for Serbs i will happily disagree with you. actually just right now my friends from belgrade have come to visit me. in the last period there have been growing number of interactions between serbs and croats, particularly amongst the youngest adult generation correct me if im wrong but from personal experience i believe you no longer live here and base your perception on the diaspora. i find people in the diaspora to be way more nationalistic than people here (here = ex-yugand exceptions always exist) and perhaps thats why you are saying that. but its too simplistic and very incorrect to say that about younger generations here also dont forget that many croats have grandparents who were in the partizans ;) we know quite a bit about yugoslavia (positives and negatives)

mrtksn 4y ago

I know what you mean, when I go to Bulgaria I still get this strange sense of freedom. I remember when I was a kid, completely normal TV channels turning to a porn channel exactly at 00:00. I think it is not happening anymore, the last time I witnessed this was maybe 5 years ago. The life feels natural, undesigned and unengineered. You don't feel like you have a mission, you can do whatever you want to do or not do anything or do the bere minimum if that's your thing. If you don't want to see nudity on TV, don't look. If you think that kids shouldn't see nudity on TV, don't let them. The state is not responsible for rising you or your kids. An argument against this lifestyle is that it makes people unambitious. I don't agree, the passionate people can follow their passion. Sedentary lifestyle is not the norm at all. For contrast, in UK it feels like you have to do something productive and reap the opportunities but be very careful(life is work). It Turkey it feels like you have very little wiggle room and have not much say in the flow of life(you are a visitor and the hosts have a plan). In Germany it feels like you need to fulfil your duties then find your place in the world(you are at school).

watwut 4y ago
> If you think that kids shouldn't see nudity on TV, don't let them. The state is not responsible for rising you or your kids. The switch to porn at midnight happened because state was actually restricting content. Kids entertainment was also controlled a lot. > An argument against this lifestyle is that it makes people unambitious But it does. Communism made people more passive in non private areas of life. Post communist setup less so, but still too due to corruption and criminality that endangered active people.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  This doesn't have anything to do with communism and the not showing porn when kids are typically around is about accommodating the parents. The difference is that the state doesn't try to control it(like UK where the state tries to implement ID verification for porn) but accommodate it. The society is not alarmist and absolutist, though the general consensus is that kids shouldn't be exposed to porn. It's a subtle difference, hard to explain of you don't have the experience. It's not something in the laws, it's the attitude.

jskrablin 4y ago

When some (in this case Communist) party controls all of the aspects of public life and you cannot criticize it ... I wouldn't call that freedom. In fact, Yugoslavia was a one party dictatorship. Some soft porn on TV (probably in the 1980s) or ability to 'sleep anywhere' doesn't really change that.

orwin 4y ago
Let's say that freedom is too big of a word and mean a lot of different things, so let's adjective it. Let's call it political freedom. Do having almost no political freedom in the society you live in prevent you from enjoying other freedom? Well, asking myself the question makes me believe my first thought was wrong and that you are right. Which is weird because I also still believe GP is right too about his feeling of freedom. I'll escape with this maybe you agree: as a kid, you are not really a part of the society yet, your parents handle this for you(taxes, responsibility in case of crime, but also voting). So the lack of political freedom, as long as it didn't came with a lack of mean, didn't impact GP as much as it would an adult. The policed society can then allows you more 'freedom' (which i cannot really define).

temp 4y ago

>You couldn't criticize the party but everything else was free. Politics wasn't free nor was there economic freedom. There's a reason why this Island had temporary visitors :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_Otok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goli_Otok Among them, not just political dissidents, people who touched on subjects they weren't supposed to touch on be it in social sciences, economics, art. >You could drive a light motorbike, no helm, no license. >The food was natural. You could sleep anywhere without anyone bothering you or having to be afraid that someone would steal from you. Seems like you're just rendering a nostalgic view of the past common just about everywhere.

paulette449 4y ago

> They're indoctrinated in school with hate for Serbs It seems like you are betraying a personal bias here. Do you have anything to support this comment? Isn't it more likely that their parents, whether Serb or Croat, have shared their personal experiences/perspectives of the Bosnian War [0] in the mid-nineties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_War

smugma 4y ago

I work in California but we have a good sized team (~100) in the former Yugoslavia. The lead person in CA is Bosnian, most of the people we work with are in Serbia, but one team is in North Macedonia. The way the head Bosnian guy explains it to me is that it’s all about money. People want to be able to eat, buy a car, take a vacation. If they paid well, everyone gets along, there’s no politics involved. This was really surprising for me to hear. My best friend growing up was Serbian, one of my best friends in college was Croatian. It seemed all they did was talk politics. The Serbian would claim they were being bullied by the world for pushing unity, the Croatian about atrocities. Here, in Silicon Valley, an actual refugee from the minority group, was looking above it all. I wouldn’t believe it if I didn’t see it in the daily interactions of these different ethnic groups. It’s strange but also amazing. My colleague should figure out how to apply his work hard, get paid friendly attitude to create world peace.

throwaytheignor 4y ago
What is he going to say to you? That the Serb committed mass genocide etc. The guy is here and has to make a living and not create enemies above his pay grade. Saying as someone who has met many Bosnians with severe PTSD who were there at that time.
- smugma 4y ago
  Ya, he could say that. Or he could just not talk about it. He could also not go on trips and recruit Serbians to work for him. Before I got to know him, I assumed that he was the same ethnicity/religion as the huge teams he was overseeing, but that wasn't the case. We have talked about how hard it was for him as a refugee to come to the US when he was a child, and now he's explaining to his 9 year old the Ukrainian refugees remind him of his own experience growing up. It seems like he genuinely doesn't care for identity politics and is looking for good people to work with. Most likely he's in the minority and maybe left at a young enough age where he didn't see and experience some of the things that the Bosnians with PTSD did.

desireco42 4y ago

I can confirm what you are saying, it is hard to explain with examples, but we were just free unlike most other places. One thing about naturist beaches and how that resonated, there is/was a belief that especially for the kids, you should allow them to run naked and swim naked in the sea. When they get older, once they learn to be shy, they would be clothed, but when they are kids and innocent, they should be free to go how they want ie. naked.

rospaya 4y ago

Or you're idolising your own childhood, like everyone else does? And also I don't see what does not wearing a helmet have to do with hating Serbs, but I don't get the rest of it either.