6 ms·

Beats all around; not surprising People can't afford food, but they'll still buy the latest IPhone. Inflation isn't going to touch their sales.

abfan1127 4y ago
people 0% finance phones for 2 years, which Apple gets paid up front for.
- ratsmack 4y ago
  It's the free phone tax, where you end up paying double the cost of the phone by the time the 2 year contract expires.
  - dangus 4y ago
    Huh? You can finance phones directly from Apple completely separate from your phone plan. You can buy an iPhone and pop in a Mint Mobile SIM. There's no "free phone tax" if you buy it the right way.
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    How do you pay double if the interest rate is 0%?
    - rabuse 4y ago
      Contracts require monthly phone service, and all the other fees they tack on along with those charges.
      - nemothekid 4y ago
        Whether or not you buy an iPhone full retail, or at 0% interest, that monthly service fee is the same. Carriers haven't subsidized phones for years now. I think the GP is mistaken. There is no "free phone tax" is you pay monthly for your phone.
        hnlmorg 4y ago
        Sorry but the other commenter is correct. I've seen this first hand because with every new phone I've ever bought since even before smart phones were a thing I've always negotiated how much I paid up front for the phone vs the monthly contract and run the maths to see how much difference the contract would be. In every instance, even during my last upgrade which happened ~12 months ago, the amount I paid up front wasn't proportional to the amount my bill reduced by. For example, If I paid for £1000 phone up front the monthly contract would be £40. So if your argument was correct then that same contract should be £40 + (£500 / 24months) == £61. But it wouldn't be. It would be more like £75 a month. Sure that's only £10 a month more. But over 24 months that works out £240 extra. So that £500 ends up costing £740. These are just made up figures but they're roughly in the same ballpark as what I've experienced. On occasions when I've asked for a pen and paper so I can make a note of the differences over the contract term, the sales people have even literally said "So if you go on this contract, your phone will cost £x more". So I don't think it's even a fact they try and hide.
        joshstrange 4y ago
        Are you buying the phone through the carrier? God knows what scummy tactics they will use and it's not a fair comparison. You can buy the phone through Apple and only pay for the phone, no extra (unless you upgrade after only 1 year).
        hnlmorg 4y ago
        I can't speak for the US but in the UK they're transparent about the costs and thus you can compare their costs with that of buying directly from the Apple store. So there isn't really any room for trickery there. Even the contract you sign has to have terms explained by the sales person because that contract can be contested if the customer claims they were duped into signing something they didn't understand. We have a lot stricter consumer laws in Europe.
        nemothekid 4y ago
        If I go to Verizon.com right now and select iPhone 13 Pro Max I can get a base phone for $30.55/mo over 36 months. That is equal to 1099.8 which is the the same price (if not less) than the 1099.9 if I bought it out right. That $30.55 DOES NOT include the price of the contract, which costs an additional $85.00 for 5G Ultraband. I would have to pay $85 whether or not I bought a 0% interest phone, bought it at full retail or brought my own phone. So no, I don't see where the "double" is coming from. It's just math.
      - csomar 4y ago
        You can buy an unlocked phone at 0% financing. (Apple's card or your bank card might offer it).
  - tims33 4y ago
    Not if you use this option: https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program
- ribosometronome 4y ago
  >which Apple gets paid up front for Wasn't Apple trying to do some of their own financing here?
  - slt2021 4y ago
    a lot of people use Apple Card to finance (because of cash back) and apple card is underwritten by Barclays or GS bank if I remember correctly
    - hnbear 4y ago
      The current Apple Card, fully Applized and wallet integrated is in partnership GS. The old Apple-branded card was Barclays, but it was just a standard retail-type branded card. iPhone financing is CitizenOne, eg the iPhone For Life program, although you can also use Apple Card to purchase it.
newaccount2021 4y ago
radicaldreamer 4y ago
The people who can't afford food are not the same people buying the latest iPhone
- parkingrift 4y ago
  Doubt. iPhone 13 is $30/month. All too easy to get on the iPhone upgrade program and perpetually give Apple $30/month.
  - yazaddaruvala 4y ago
    +1 as soon as you look at the costs per day, iPhones are cheap! At $1.5 per day for the latest iPhone+AppleCare, the upgrade program made me realize I get at least $5-$10 of value out of my phone daily. Even in just time saved on daily tasks e.g. banking, shopping, taxis, work (I don't have to walk to the "location" or even to my desktop).
    - throwaway_4ever 4y ago
      But why let Apple take all of that margin from you? This year my iPhone XS will depreciate like $100, costing me $0.30 / day to do the same tasks just as well.
      - gumby 4y ago
        Some people borrow money to buy a house or car and consider it a better deal than saving up. This calculation can make sense.
      - yazaddaruvala 4y ago
        Five reasons (probably bad reasons): Context: For a long time I stayed on my iPhone 6, trying to extract every last bit of value from it (replaced the screen 1x and the battery 2x) before it was no longer getting updates (I had it 6 years). 1. The cognitive overhead of trying to extract every last dollar is greater than $1 a day. In the back of my mind I kept going back and forth, do I upgrade the battery again, or switch to a newer $1000 phone? If I include the time and money ($100 every 2 years - $0.14 per day for the battery; $150 every 3 yeas - $0.14 per day for the screen) actually spent getting the phone fixed, then the upgrade program is a no brainer winner. 2. The improvements were noticeable! Significantly. When I got my iPhone 11 Pro after giving away my iPhone 6, my laptop usage reduced by 75% (I had been thinking of buying a new laptop - the iPhone purchase saved me money overall). 3. I stayed on my iPhone 6 because "I just didn't believe X, Y, or Z was actually worth the upgrade". For $1.5 per day (vs $0.3) for a tool able to save me $5-10 per day, every day, why ever lag behind? What if the 14 is able to save me $15 per day because of X, Y, or Z but "I just don't believe it" and miss out on years worth of "savings". 4. Even without everything I've said prior, I can afford the $1.5 per day, even for frivolous reasons. When my iPhone, a tool, costs the same as one bubble tea / fancy latte a week, I'd rather reduce my cafe visits slightly and use the best version of the tools that are known to improve my life. 5. There is still a lot more iPhones can improve on, and I would like them to improve. I specifically also buy the Pro because I view "giving Apple that margin" as a "vote with my wallet" that there is a market for a more feature-rich iPhone can do next year and the more my vote counts.
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
I feel like the number of people who both cannot afford food and will buy the latest iPhone is vanishingly small. I am sure such people exist, and that is... strange, but it doesn't feel like a useful explanation for what is happening.
- pastor_bob 4y ago
  How's the Iphone selling so well over the past 3 months then compared to last year, especially in face of weak international currencies? These have been rough months for the average consumer supposedly. Does the Iphone 13 have a particular selling point other than being the latest and greatest? Obviously the people aren't feeling the inflation pressure when it comes to buying Iphones.
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    “Weak international currencies” is not the same as “people can’t afford food”.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  At least in the UK, a lot of the (quite dreadful) infrastructure around social support requires you to have internet access - an iPhone on credit with a cheap/free SIM isn't a terrible way to achieve this on a low budget. Plus you know the phone is going to last a long time and hold its value once you're done with it.

abfan1127 4y ago

people 0% finance phones for 2 years, which Apple gets paid up front for.

ratsmack 4y ago
It's the free phone tax, where you end up paying double the cost of the phone by the time the 2 year contract expires.
- dangus 4y ago
  Huh? You can finance phones directly from Apple completely separate from your phone plan. You can buy an iPhone and pop in a Mint Mobile SIM. There's no "free phone tax" if you buy it the right way.
- nemothekid 4y ago
  How do you pay double if the interest rate is 0%?
  - rabuse 4y ago
    Contracts require monthly phone service, and all the other fees they tack on along with those charges.
    - nemothekid 4y ago
      Whether or not you buy an iPhone full retail, or at 0% interest, that monthly service fee is the same. Carriers haven't subsidized phones for years now. I think the GP is mistaken. There is no "free phone tax" is you pay monthly for your phone.
      - hnlmorg 4y ago
        Sorry but the other commenter is correct. I've seen this first hand because with every new phone I've ever bought since even before smart phones were a thing I've always negotiated how much I paid up front for the phone vs the monthly contract and run the maths to see how much difference the contract would be. In every instance, even during my last upgrade which happened ~12 months ago, the amount I paid up front wasn't proportional to the amount my bill reduced by. For example, If I paid for £1000 phone up front the monthly contract would be £40. So if your argument was correct then that same contract should be £40 + (£500 / 24months) == £61. But it wouldn't be. It would be more like £75 a month. Sure that's only £10 a month more. But over 24 months that works out £240 extra. So that £500 ends up costing £740. These are just made up figures but they're roughly in the same ballpark as what I've experienced. On occasions when I've asked for a pen and paper so I can make a note of the differences over the contract term, the sales people have even literally said "So if you go on this contract, your phone will cost £x more". So I don't think it's even a fact they try and hide.
        joshstrange 4y ago
        Are you buying the phone through the carrier? God knows what scummy tactics they will use and it's not a fair comparison. You can buy the phone through Apple and only pay for the phone, no extra (unless you upgrade after only 1 year).
        hnlmorg 4y ago
        I can't speak for the US but in the UK they're transparent about the costs and thus you can compare their costs with that of buying directly from the Apple store. So there isn't really any room for trickery there. Even the contract you sign has to have terms explained by the sales person because that contract can be contested if the customer claims they were duped into signing something they didn't understand. We have a lot stricter consumer laws in Europe.
        nemothekid 4y ago
        If I go to Verizon.com right now and select iPhone 13 Pro Max I can get a base phone for $30.55/mo over 36 months. That is equal to 1099.8 which is the the same price (if not less) than the 1099.9 if I bought it out right. That $30.55 DOES NOT include the price of the contract, which costs an additional $85.00 for 5G Ultraband. I would have to pay $85 whether or not I bought a 0% interest phone, bought it at full retail or brought my own phone. So no, I don't see where the "double" is coming from. It's just math.
    - csomar 4y ago
      You can buy an unlocked phone at 0% financing. (Apple's card or your bank card might offer it).
- tims33 4y ago
  Not if you use this option: https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program https://www.apple.com/shop/iphone/iphone-upgrade-program
ribosometronome 4y ago
>which Apple gets paid up front for Wasn't Apple trying to do some of their own financing here?
- slt2021 4y ago
  a lot of people use Apple Card to finance (because of cash back) and apple card is underwritten by Barclays or GS bank if I remember correctly
  - hnbear 4y ago
    The current Apple Card, fully Applized and wallet integrated is in partnership GS. The old Apple-branded card was Barclays, but it was just a standard retail-type branded card. iPhone financing is CitizenOne, eg the iPhone For Life program, although you can also use Apple Card to purchase it.

newaccount2021 4y ago

radicaldreamer 4y ago

The people who can't afford food are not the same people buying the latest iPhone

parkingrift 4y ago
Doubt. iPhone 13 is $30/month. All too easy to get on the iPhone upgrade program and perpetually give Apple $30/month.
- yazaddaruvala 4y ago
  +1 as soon as you look at the costs per day, iPhones are cheap! At $1.5 per day for the latest iPhone+AppleCare, the upgrade program made me realize I get at least $5-$10 of value out of my phone daily. Even in just time saved on daily tasks e.g. banking, shopping, taxis, work (I don't have to walk to the "location" or even to my desktop).
  - throwaway_4ever 4y ago
    But why let Apple take all of that margin from you? This year my iPhone XS will depreciate like $100, costing me $0.30 / day to do the same tasks just as well.
    - gumby 4y ago
      Some people borrow money to buy a house or car and consider it a better deal than saving up. This calculation can make sense.
    - yazaddaruvala 4y ago
      Five reasons (probably bad reasons): Context: For a long time I stayed on my iPhone 6, trying to extract every last bit of value from it (replaced the screen 1x and the battery 2x) before it was no longer getting updates (I had it 6 years). 1. The cognitive overhead of trying to extract every last dollar is greater than $1 a day. In the back of my mind I kept going back and forth, do I upgrade the battery again, or switch to a newer $1000 phone? If I include the time and money ($100 every 2 years - $0.14 per day for the battery; $150 every 3 yeas - $0.14 per day for the screen) actually spent getting the phone fixed, then the upgrade program is a no brainer winner. 2. The improvements were noticeable! Significantly. When I got my iPhone 11 Pro after giving away my iPhone 6, my laptop usage reduced by 75% (I had been thinking of buying a new laptop - the iPhone purchase saved me money overall). 3. I stayed on my iPhone 6 because "I just didn't believe X, Y, or Z was actually worth the upgrade". For $1.5 per day (vs $0.3) for a tool able to save me $5-10 per day, every day, why ever lag behind? What if the 14 is able to save me $15 per day because of X, Y, or Z but "I just don't believe it" and miss out on years worth of "savings". 4. Even without everything I've said prior, I can afford the $1.5 per day, even for frivolous reasons. When my iPhone, a tool, costs the same as one bubble tea / fancy latte a week, I'd rather reduce my cafe visits slightly and use the best version of the tools that are known to improve my life. 5. There is still a lot more iPhones can improve on, and I would like them to improve. I specifically also buy the Pro because I view "giving Apple that margin" as a "vote with my wallet" that there is a market for a more feature-rich iPhone can do next year and the more my vote counts.

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

I feel like the number of people who both cannot afford food and will buy the latest iPhone is vanishingly small. I am sure such people exist, and that is... strange, but it doesn't feel like a useful explanation for what is happening.

pastor_bob 4y ago
How's the Iphone selling so well over the past 3 months then compared to last year, especially in face of weak international currencies? These have been rough months for the average consumer supposedly. Does the Iphone 13 have a particular selling point other than being the latest and greatest? Obviously the people aren't feeling the inflation pressure when it comes to buying Iphones.
- saagarjha 4y ago
  “Weak international currencies” is not the same as “people can’t afford food”.
zimpenfish 4y ago
At least in the UK, a lot of the (quite dreadful) infrastructure around social support requires you to have internet access - an iPhone on credit with a cheap/free SIM isn't a terrible way to achieve this on a low budget. Plus you know the phone is going to last a long time and hold its value once you're done with it.