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I think there's a fundamental difference between "someone breaks into your house and commits a crime" and...purposefully allowing someone use of a gun or vehicl

I think there's a fundamental difference between "someone breaks into your house and commits a crime" and...purposefully allowing someone use of a gun or vehicle, or negligence leading to said use (ie, leaving your car running in front of a convenience store, and then someone stealing it and going on a high speed joyride, running a red light t-boning a minivan, killing a family of four), and someone, with no negligence on your part, using property of yours to commit a crime. If you leave your gun on the floor of your car, someone smashes the window and steals it and shoots up a convenience store: you should be charged criminally and subject to civil liability. If someone breaks into the gun safe in the trunk of your car and shoots up a convenience store? No crime, no liability - you took reasonable precautions.

Dylan16807 4y ago
A gun comes with special obligations to protect it. If someone borrows your car, or steals your left-running car, I don't think you should have have any criminal liability or risk of seizure. (Assuming you didn't conspire ahead of time, of course.)
- notch656a 4y ago
  While I agree with you on someone stealing your car, I don't see the gun and the car as so different as you do. You can easily kill people with a car or box truck, and possibly in greater number. Blaming someone because their car or gun was stolen sounds a lot like victim blaming to me. And to the comment about breaking the window, I'd like to point out that most safes are practically as easy to break open as a window is. I recall buying one safe, and another customer explained to me in detail how they had pried one open in only a few seconds.
  - indymike 4y ago
    > Blaming someone because their car or gun was stolen sounds a lot like victim blaming to me. This is punishing one of the victims.
indymike 4y ago
Not a single example here is just. In every case someone has committed a crime. Stealing a running car is grand theft auto (assuming the car is worth the minimum). Even if I left it running, the thief alone committed a crime.

Dylan16807 4y ago

A gun comes with special obligations to protect it. If someone borrows your car, or steals your left-running car, I don't think you should have have any criminal liability or risk of seizure. (Assuming you didn't conspire ahead of time, of course.)

notch656a 4y ago
While I agree with you on someone stealing your car, I don't see the gun and the car as so different as you do. You can easily kill people with a car or box truck, and possibly in greater number. Blaming someone because their car or gun was stolen sounds a lot like victim blaming to me. And to the comment about breaking the window, I'd like to point out that most safes are practically as easy to break open as a window is. I recall buying one safe, and another customer explained to me in detail how they had pried one open in only a few seconds.
- indymike 4y ago
  > Blaming someone because their car or gun was stolen sounds a lot like victim blaming to me. This is punishing one of the victims.

indymike 4y ago

Not a single example here is just. In every case someone has committed a crime. Stealing a running car is grand theft auto (assuming the car is worth the minimum). Even if I left it running, the thief alone committed a crime.