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> The U.S. government thinks they have very valid reasons they should be able to see the details of the accounts of all U.S. citizens regardless of where those

by cesarb 4y ago

> The U.S. government thinks they have very valid reasons they should be able to see the details of the accounts of all U.S. citizens regardless of where those accounts may be. For the most part I agree with the concept, because as an entity responsible for collecting and running off of taxes, [...] Most of the world doesn't agree with that concept. AFAIK, the only countries which tax citizens instead of just residents are the USA and Eritrea.

notch656a 4y ago
The USA also has an exit tax of a few grand to renounce, so they basically hold you at gunpoint that even if you leave the US for good and never use any of their services or even consular services you have an 'original sin' that forces you to keep filing or pay up the fee to leave the gang.
- silverpepsi 4y ago
  .. that's not the exit tax though. That's the fee to process your exit. If you do have a substantial networth there is an actual exit tax on your total net worth
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Is there a reason processing an exit takes more than, let's say, the $165 it costs for a first-time passport? It looks to me like they're both taxes.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Of course, they have to make sure you’re in all the ‘naughty’ databases too (/s)
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Use whatever semantics you like.
kbenson 4y ago
U.S. citizenship comes with benefits (voting, etc) as well as drawbacks (taxation). If you don't need those benefits and you don't want the drawbacks, renounce citizenship. That said, I was being a little loose when saying citizenship. The U.S. has various laws many of which are regarding taxation of business within its borders, with entities housed in its borders, or citizens abroad. They will seek to enforce those laws. I think that's for the most part that's fairly standard. There are of course a myriad of ways in which the issue becomes more complicated, and I'm not trying to claim the government can do no wrong and all their actions are justified, I just think it's important to look at the issue holistically. The government should be capable, which appropriate checks and balances, to enforce the laws. People should have the ability to have some expectation of privacy from the government unless there's a specific reason the government seeking otherwise that's valid.
- safety1st 4y ago
  I'm sorry to hear that you don't think I should be a US citizen because I live overseas. Fortunately, I don't give a shit about your opinions. Here's my opinion, I think the US should do what virtually every other country in the world does - accept that its power is not absolute, and tax its citizens based on residence, not on citizenship. Do you have skin in this game? If not, get off my back and stop trying to make my life worse. Expats are already screwed by the tax code. We have FATCA and FBAR and we get denied basic financial services when we're outside the US. Many banks in other countries now deny American expats bank accounts because they're terrified of repercussions from the US government if the foreign bank doesn't fill out US tax forms correctly. We don't need more of this crap you're pushing. Stop screwing up ordinary people's lives. I will make the most charitable interpretation I can here and assume that you want to hurt other Americans and tell them if they don't like it they can stop being American out of ignorance, not out of malice.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Oh come on. That's the least charitable interpretation of what they said. The US gives expat citizens a huge tax deduction. You only pay taxes if you're a wealthy expat. The paperwork is to enforce it. Otherwise, wealthy people in the US could just "live" in tax havens and evade US taxes.
refurb 4y ago
Not sure what taxation of non-residents has to do with it? In all developed countries there is an on-going effort to make sure that off-shore assets are identified so they can be taxed appropriately. Canada requires it. https://farbertax.com/cra-foreign-assets-and-income/reporting-foreign-bank-accounts/ https://farbertax.com/cra-foreign-assets-and-income/reportin...
stackbutterflow 4y ago
Europe at least started to track overseas Europeans' bank accounts. Edit: s/Europe/The EU.
- sofixa 4y ago
  To check for tax avoidance while you're an EU tax resident, but that's it. The EU doesn't make you pay EU taxes if you're not a tax resident.

by cesarb 4y ago

notch656a 4y ago

The USA also has an exit tax of a few grand to renounce, so they basically hold you at gunpoint that even if you leave the US for good and never use any of their services or even consular services you have an 'original sin' that forces you to keep filing or pay up the fee to leave the gang.

silverpepsi 4y ago
.. that's not the exit tax though. That's the fee to process your exit. If you do have a substantial networth there is an actual exit tax on your total net worth
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  Is there a reason processing an exit takes more than, let's say, the $165 it costs for a first-time passport? It looks to me like they're both taxes.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Of course, they have to make sure you’re in all the ‘naughty’ databases too (/s)
- notch656a 4y ago
  Use whatever semantics you like.

kbenson 4y ago

U.S. citizenship comes with benefits (voting, etc) as well as drawbacks (taxation). If you don't need those benefits and you don't want the drawbacks, renounce citizenship. That said, I was being a little loose when saying citizenship. The U.S. has various laws many of which are regarding taxation of business within its borders, with entities housed in its borders, or citizens abroad. They will seek to enforce those laws. I think that's for the most part that's fairly standard. There are of course a myriad of ways in which the issue becomes more complicated, and I'm not trying to claim the government can do no wrong and all their actions are justified, I just think it's important to look at the issue holistically. The government should be capable, which appropriate checks and balances, to enforce the laws. People should have the ability to have some expectation of privacy from the government unless there's a specific reason the government seeking otherwise that's valid.

safety1st 4y ago
I'm sorry to hear that you don't think I should be a US citizen because I live overseas. Fortunately, I don't give a shit about your opinions. Here's my opinion, I think the US should do what virtually every other country in the world does - accept that its power is not absolute, and tax its citizens based on residence, not on citizenship. Do you have skin in this game? If not, get off my back and stop trying to make my life worse. Expats are already screwed by the tax code. We have FATCA and FBAR and we get denied basic financial services when we're outside the US. Many banks in other countries now deny American expats bank accounts because they're terrified of repercussions from the US government if the foreign bank doesn't fill out US tax forms correctly. We don't need more of this crap you're pushing. Stop screwing up ordinary people's lives. I will make the most charitable interpretation I can here and assume that you want to hurt other Americans and tell them if they don't like it they can stop being American out of ignorance, not out of malice.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Oh come on. That's the least charitable interpretation of what they said. The US gives expat citizens a huge tax deduction. You only pay taxes if you're a wealthy expat. The paperwork is to enforce it. Otherwise, wealthy people in the US could just "live" in tax havens and evade US taxes.

refurb 4y ago

Not sure what taxation of non-residents has to do with it? In all developed countries there is an on-going effort to make sure that off-shore assets are identified so they can be taxed appropriately. Canada requires it. https://farbertax.com/cra-foreign-assets-and-income/reporting-foreign-bank-accounts/ https://farbertax.com/cra-foreign-assets-and-income/reportin...

stackbutterflow 4y ago

Europe at least started to track overseas Europeans' bank accounts. Edit: s/Europe/The EU.

sofixa 4y ago
To check for tax avoidance while you're an EU tax resident, but that's it. The EU doesn't make you pay EU taxes if you're not a tax resident.