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Intelligent people 'less likely to believe in God'

11 points by nreece 18y ago

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
josefresco 18y ago
I would add that intelligent and successful people maintain a public religious affiliation even if privately they think it's all a bunch of hooey. If the community/customers believe you believe in a higher power, your are considered "one of them" and they simply trust you more. Knowing someone has the "fear of god" sits better with religious folk than someone who simply answers to their own morals and principles. /ducks
- kirse 18y ago
  than someone who simply answers to their own morals and principles. So let me understand this correctly -- it's okay to lie and be two-faced with both yourself and others for the sake of gaining trust (on false premises) from others? Nice system of morals you have there.
  - alexandros 18y ago
    It's a selection bias. The ones who are willing to lie and be two-faced with others for the sake of gaining false trust, are the ones who will be successful. The ones who are willing to be open about their humanism (i despise the word atheist as it signals the lack of something) are pushed aside. (And apparently end up in academia?).
  - mechanical_fish 18y ago
    Without going into the issue of whether or not it's okay to lie... there's nothing "false" about the trust it gains you. If I ask you to tell a lie that I specify in order to prove your loyalty to me, and you do it, I gain more trust in you than if I'd just asked you to tell the truth. What does your loyalty to rational truth tell me? Only that you're smart, and paying attention, and that you don't necessarily care what I think. Your willingness to conform to my arbitrary set of "lies", on the other hand, speaks volumes about your loyalty to me. That's why hazing rituals tend to involve pain, embarrassment, lawbreaking, or all of the above.
    - kirse 18y ago
      I would agree that the trust is not "false" and is authentic, but all this other malarky about "loyalty" still ignores the underlying issue - and that is a complete failure in this system of "intelligent" morality that rationalizes being two-faced for the sake of winning over more people. I know my system of morality values establishing trust in relationships by telling the truth, not through deception. If a little less success and loyalty is the result, I am more than willing to be "less successful".
- poutine 18y ago
  The World is not the United States. Thank God.
- petercooper 18y ago
  No need to duck - you're right. There is absolutely no way a presidential candidate at this time could be successful and be "out" as an atheist. I don't think this is just a religious thing, but one of people voting for people like themselves. There are significantly more theists than atheists in America, so it makes sense. We all "lie" in small talk, attempting to seek common ground with people, and the like - lying about religion might seem like a huge thing in some people's eyes, but if it serves a purpose without damage, why not?
reazalun 18y ago
"A decline in religious observance over the last century was directly linked to a rise in average intelligence." This is a correlation, not causation. If you study the period of Islamic Golden Age (comparable to the European Renaissance), you'll find people at that time were highly religious; more religious than the Muslims from this era.
- dazzawazza 18y ago
  Interesting but during both the Renaissance and 'Golden Age' non belief was punishable by death or at best imprisonment so 'everyone' was essentially religious. Of course, your point still stands, correlation not causation.
pxlpshr 18y ago
It took a study to figure this out? Seems to me that it's been a growing trend since the late 90s and early 00's.
davidw 18y ago
Could y'all go back to reddit? Please?
- ObieJazz 18y ago
  Funny: After I visited the page and then clicked 'Back', I was expecting to see Reddit -- I had forgotten the link came from Hacker News.
- aswanson 18y ago
  Amen. The OP should know better, he has been here awhile. No mas, please.
gills 18y ago
The funniest outcome of research like this is the wannabes...who pick their position on religion not based on their own reflections and intellect, but in an attempt to be perceived as more intelligent by choosing atheism.
vizard 18y ago
Let me remind you that converse is not true. Being an atheist doesnt make you smart.
msluyter 18y ago
Trying to keep things slightly on topic for hacker news: out of curiosity, what is the believer/non-believer ratio in the software community compared to the population at large? My totally unscientific guess is that it's much lower than the US average, but I was curious what others thought.

11 points by nreece 18y ago

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

I would add that intelligent and successful people maintain a public religious affiliation even if privately they think it's all a bunch of hooey. If the community/customers believe you believe in a higher power, your are considered "one of them" and they simply trust you more. Knowing someone has the "fear of god" sits better with religious folk than someone who simply answers to their own morals and principles. /ducks

kirse 18y ago
than someone who simply answers to their own morals and principles. So let me understand this correctly -- it's okay to lie and be two-faced with both yourself and others for the sake of gaining trust (on false premises) from others? Nice system of morals you have there.
- alexandros 18y ago
  It's a selection bias. The ones who are willing to lie and be two-faced with others for the sake of gaining false trust, are the ones who will be successful. The ones who are willing to be open about their humanism (i despise the word atheist as it signals the lack of something) are pushed aside. (And apparently end up in academia?).
- mechanical_fish 18y ago
  Without going into the issue of whether or not it's okay to lie... there's nothing "false" about the trust it gains you. If I ask you to tell a lie that I specify in order to prove your loyalty to me, and you do it, I gain more trust in you than if I'd just asked you to tell the truth. What does your loyalty to rational truth tell me? Only that you're smart, and paying attention, and that you don't necessarily care what I think. Your willingness to conform to my arbitrary set of "lies", on the other hand, speaks volumes about your loyalty to me. That's why hazing rituals tend to involve pain, embarrassment, lawbreaking, or all of the above.
  - kirse 18y ago
    I would agree that the trust is not "false" and is authentic, but all this other malarky about "loyalty" still ignores the underlying issue - and that is a complete failure in this system of "intelligent" morality that rationalizes being two-faced for the sake of winning over more people. I know my system of morality values establishing trust in relationships by telling the truth, not through deception. If a little less success and loyalty is the result, I am more than willing to be "less successful".
poutine 18y ago
The World is not the United States. Thank God.
petercooper 18y ago
No need to duck - you're right. There is absolutely no way a presidential candidate at this time could be successful and be "out" as an atheist. I don't think this is just a religious thing, but one of people voting for people like themselves. There are significantly more theists than atheists in America, so it makes sense. We all "lie" in small talk, attempting to seek common ground with people, and the like - lying about religion might seem like a huge thing in some people's eyes, but if it serves a purpose without damage, why not?

reazalun 18y ago

"A decline in religious observance over the last century was directly linked to a rise in average intelligence." This is a correlation, not causation. If you study the period of Islamic Golden Age (comparable to the European Renaissance), you'll find people at that time were highly religious; more religious than the Muslims from this era.

dazzawazza 18y ago
Interesting but during both the Renaissance and 'Golden Age' non belief was punishable by death or at best imprisonment so 'everyone' was essentially religious. Of course, your point still stands, correlation not causation.

pxlpshr 18y ago

It took a study to figure this out? Seems to me that it's been a growing trend since the late 90s and early 00's.

davidw 18y ago

Could y'all go back to reddit? Please?

ObieJazz 18y ago
Funny: After I visited the page and then clicked 'Back', I was expecting to see Reddit -- I had forgotten the link came from Hacker News.
aswanson 18y ago
Amen. The OP should know better, he has been here awhile. No mas, please.

gills 18y ago

The funniest outcome of research like this is the wannabes...who pick their position on religion not based on their own reflections and intellect, but in an attempt to be perceived as more intelligent by choosing atheism.

vizard 18y ago

Let me remind you that converse is not true. Being an atheist doesnt make you smart.

msluyter 18y ago

Trying to keep things slightly on topic for hacker news: out of curiosity, what is the believer/non-believer ratio in the software community compared to the population at large? My totally unscientific guess is that it's much lower than the US average, but I was curious what others thought.