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> If one’s aim is not so much discovering the truth as winning an argument at all costs, fallacy theory can provide a training in the dark arts of closing down

> If one’s aim is not so much discovering the truth as winning an argument at all costs, fallacy theory can provide a training in the dark arts of closing down a discussion prematurely Good HappyOpossum: “I totally need to make sure I avoid doing that” Real HappyOpossum: “That’s totally how I can win arguments on HN, gotta make sure I study fallacy theory”

unsupp0rted 4y ago
There’s no way to win arguments on social media
- sien 4y ago
  It's like Wargames. The only way to win is not to play. Actually, that said, perhaps some readers who are not in the argument might learn something. Or if you're in it then you do as well.
  - sgjohnson 4y ago
    > The only way to win is not to play You can also just troll. Generally, you can’t lose from such a position. Arguably though, that would still count as “not playing”.
    - logifail 4y ago
      > Arguably though, that would still count as “not playing” ...or playing, but not playing at the same game. Cue the saying about wrestling with a pig.
- brigandish 4y ago
  I find it's a helpful way to challenge oneself. Get into an argument and very quickly you'll find things you hadn't considered, and a wonderfully easy way to bring one's own tribalism to the surface, where it can be killed more easily.
  - unsupp0rted 4y ago
    Getting challenged on one's positions and reconsidering them is ideal if it were so, and perhaps on HN it is about half the time. On other social media there is no challenge to one's positions. You are racist, so it doesn't matter what you said. You are sexist, so it doesn't matter what you said. You are a shill, so it doesn't matter what you said.
- elevaet 4y ago
  Public argument isn't really for trying to convince the opponent of your position, it's for convincing the onlookers of your position. In that sense maybe you can win an argument on social media? I tend not to participate anyway, preferring a less confrontational approach.

unsupp0rted 4y ago

There’s no way to win arguments on social media

sien 4y ago
It's like Wargames. The only way to win is not to play. Actually, that said, perhaps some readers who are not in the argument might learn something. Or if you're in it then you do as well.
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  > The only way to win is not to play You can also just troll. Generally, you can’t lose from such a position. Arguably though, that would still count as “not playing”.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > Arguably though, that would still count as “not playing” ...or playing, but not playing at the same game. Cue the saying about wrestling with a pig.
brigandish 4y ago
I find it's a helpful way to challenge oneself. Get into an argument and very quickly you'll find things you hadn't considered, and a wonderfully easy way to bring one's own tribalism to the surface, where it can be killed more easily.
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  Getting challenged on one's positions and reconsidering them is ideal if it were so, and perhaps on HN it is about half the time. On other social media there is no challenge to one's positions. You are racist, so it doesn't matter what you said. You are sexist, so it doesn't matter what you said. You are a shill, so it doesn't matter what you said.
elevaet 4y ago
Public argument isn't really for trying to convince the opponent of your position, it's for convincing the onlookers of your position. In that sense maybe you can win an argument on social media? I tend not to participate anyway, preferring a less confrontational approach.