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You say there is nothing wrong, but then go on to list things that are in fact wrong. You think the problems are a mistake or otherwise something to be "fixed"

You say there is nothing wrong, but then go on to list things that are in fact wrong. You think the problems are a mistake or otherwise something to be "fixed" the products are working exactly as both the government and the manufacturers want them to, and it has nothing to do with "intel agencies" Having your entire life "cloud connected" and them complaining about privacy, is like opening a window then complaining that the house is drafty. I love home automation, not a single component of my home automation is cloud connected, if more people would accept, learn and support non-cloud systems, services and protocols everyone would be better off

Dylan16807 4y ago
> You say there is nothing wrong, but then go on to list things that are in fact wrong. They say there is nothing wrong with the technology, but then go on to list things that are in fact wrong with the not-technology.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  No they ignore the problems with technology ( unencrypted cloud connection / data storage, or lack of zero knowledge systems ) and move the problem to political or other realms. The problem with the technology is it allows the company, political power, or police to access the data with out user permission, that is a technological problem, belief that just passing the correct laws to resolve this technology problem defy's recorded history and logic
  - oittaa 4y ago
    > unencrypted cloud connection / data storage [citation needed] because basically every Google (and Nest) product have used pretty decent protocols since Snowden leaks.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      You have confused transport encryption with storage encryption Google and Nest use transport encryption to ensure only the device and google can see the data, but once it stored google can see everything Zero knowledge data Encryption would require that ONLY the owner of the device has access to the data, not google and example of this is say BitWarden Password Manager, even though the data is stored on BitWarden Servers, No one at bitwarden as access to any users password vault, The user holds the key, and only the user can view the passwords.
smcin 4y ago
> I love home automation, not a single component of my home automation is cloud connected, if more people would accept, learn and support non-cloud systems, services and protocols everyone would be better off • better if you could please provide links to how-to starter guides on how to do this • I share your concerns, but one obvious huge drawback to a home system that's 100% off-cloud is security camera footage: how do you prevent a violent home invasion or burglary where the first thing they do is at gunpoint force you to show them where your server is so they can disconnect/destroy it? Not having a solution could easily be a $50,000 mistake or worse. Perhaps you just live in an area where violent home invasions are not a regular occurrence. It's not just about porch pirates stealing packages, or thermostats.
- Handytinge 4y ago
  Off cloud in this case pretty clearly implies "not on somebody elses cloud where they can access it". You can still have off site backups and recordings on an innumerable count of hosting or storage solutions, encrypted with your own keys.
- petre 4y ago
  - Home Assistant - Encrypted NVR
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>how do you prevent a violent home invasion or burglary where the first thing they do is at gunpoint force you to show them where your server is so they can disconnect/destroy it? I would love to see a source of this being a common tactic of thieves, home invasion in general are extremely rare as most thieves are cowards and want to attack soft targets i.e unoccupied homes. Then of the home invasions I am aware of, I know of ZERO where the "first thing they did" was force the homeowner to show them the location of the storage server. Even if that is a "common occurrence" which I doubt, what stops a home invader from cutting off the internet before the attack? and many of these cloud connected cams are wifi, there are several very easy attack vectors to knock them offline. I think your strawman is weak and easily defeated in a number of ways >>> better if you could please provide links to how-to starter guides on how to do this Some of the Technology I use, or sources I visit to look for new things https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://unraid.net/ https://unraid.net/ https://blueirissoftware.com/ https://blueirissoftware.com/ https://tailscale.com/ https://tailscale.com/ https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/ https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/ https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted

Dylan16807 4y ago

> You say there is nothing wrong, but then go on to list things that are in fact wrong. They say there is nothing wrong with the technology, but then go on to list things that are in fact wrong with the not-technology.

phpisthebest 4y ago
No they ignore the problems with technology ( unencrypted cloud connection / data storage, or lack of zero knowledge systems ) and move the problem to political or other realms. The problem with the technology is it allows the company, political power, or police to access the data with out user permission, that is a technological problem, belief that just passing the correct laws to resolve this technology problem defy's recorded history and logic
- oittaa 4y ago
  > unencrypted cloud connection / data storage [citation needed] because basically every Google (and Nest) product have used pretty decent protocols since Snowden leaks.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    You have confused transport encryption with storage encryption Google and Nest use transport encryption to ensure only the device and google can see the data, but once it stored google can see everything Zero knowledge data Encryption would require that ONLY the owner of the device has access to the data, not google and example of this is say BitWarden Password Manager, even though the data is stored on BitWarden Servers, No one at bitwarden as access to any users password vault, The user holds the key, and only the user can view the passwords.

smcin 4y ago

> I love home automation, not a single component of my home automation is cloud connected, if more people would accept, learn and support non-cloud systems, services and protocols everyone would be better off • better if you could please provide links to how-to starter guides on how to do this • I share your concerns, but one obvious huge drawback to a home system that's 100% off-cloud is security camera footage: how do you prevent a violent home invasion or burglary where the first thing they do is at gunpoint force you to show them where your server is so they can disconnect/destroy it? Not having a solution could easily be a $50,000 mistake or worse. Perhaps you just live in an area where violent home invasions are not a regular occurrence. It's not just about porch pirates stealing packages, or thermostats.

Handytinge 4y ago
Off cloud in this case pretty clearly implies "not on somebody elses cloud where they can access it". You can still have off site backups and recordings on an innumerable count of hosting or storage solutions, encrypted with your own keys.
petre 4y ago
- Home Assistant - Encrypted NVR
phpisthebest 4y ago
>>how do you prevent a violent home invasion or burglary where the first thing they do is at gunpoint force you to show them where your server is so they can disconnect/destroy it? I would love to see a source of this being a common tactic of thieves, home invasion in general are extremely rare as most thieves are cowards and want to attack soft targets i.e unoccupied homes. Then of the home invasions I am aware of, I know of ZERO where the "first thing they did" was force the homeowner to show them the location of the storage server. Even if that is a "common occurrence" which I doubt, what stops a home invader from cutting off the internet before the attack? and many of these cloud connected cams are wifi, there are several very easy attack vectors to knock them offline. I think your strawman is weak and easily defeated in a number of ways >>> better if you could please provide links to how-to starter guides on how to do this Some of the Technology I use, or sources I visit to look for new things https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://unraid.net/ https://unraid.net/ https://blueirissoftware.com/ https://blueirissoftware.com/ https://tailscale.com/ https://tailscale.com/ https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/ https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/ https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted