5 ms·

> Haskell because elitism Was there really a need for this comment? How about: for correctness and expressivity

by louthy 4y ago

kristopolous 4y ago
What you offered up is pretty close to the meaning of elite.
- TillE 4y ago
  "Elite" and "elitism" are totally different concepts. Disparaging jokes about programming languages are really tired and uninteresting, I was glad to see that the Carbon discord explicitly bans them.
  - kristopolous 4y ago
    In practice they're always (?!) about the userbase. Everything's got exceptions but it's usually a punch by proxy. This would be really obvious if it was anything else. If someone started making fun of say basketball, keeping it not about the people who play and are fans would be quite a precipice to navigate. You could certainly complain about the technicals of the rules but you're no longer in the world of jokes. Given that, Haskell, unless you're a mathematician, is still one of the least accessible language outside of purely academic, esoteric or intentionally obfuscated ones.
    - derefr 4y ago
      > Given that, Haskell, unless you're a mathematician, is still one of the least accessible language outside of purely academic, esoteric or intentionally obfuscated ones. Tiny nitpick: Haskell the language and runtime is just another ML. You could technically write a ground-up Haskell program that doesn't do any maths stuff — in about the same way that you can write a ground-up Erlang program that doesn't use OTP. Haskell just has a standard library and language-package ecosystem that's full of stuff only mathematicians were previously expected to understand. :)
- gumby 4y ago
  An elite is a subset that was drawn out of a pool. The set of very rich people is a small subset: an elite. The group of prisoners chosen for execution today is also an elite. I can't see how those statements in any way define any sort of population subset.
  - kristopolous 4y ago
    The elite is associated with accuracy, cleanliness of execution, precision, correctness, an ability to be flexible and expressive while maintaining refined control and precision. Take olympic athletes or orchestral musicians for instance. If say a violinist said they only used a particular violin because it was that which was correct and expressive, that's much closer to elitist than say egalitarianism.
weego 4y ago
To be fair the absolute state of scala is largely due to imported elitism from Haskell crossovers
chakkepolja 4y ago
/s because sarcasm
Xeoncross 4y ago
True, I was going to write something else for Haskell but realized it didn't matter what I put as I'd be called out and corrected regardless.
- SkyMarshal 4y ago
  Why would you have been called out for saying “correctness and expressivity”? That’s accurate, though also probably legacy now that Rust can satisfy most or all of those use cases.
ljoiajsdfwfwdf 4y ago
Haskell's runtime performance is unethical from a carbon perspective.
- kadoban 4y ago
  Haskell benchmarks better than _many_ languages, so that seems hard to support.

> Haskell because elitism Was there really a need for this comment? How about: for correctness and expressivity

by louthy 4y ago

> Haskell because elitism Was there really a need for this comment? How about: for correctness and expressivity

kristopolous 4y ago

What you offered up is pretty close to the meaning of elite.

TillE 4y ago
"Elite" and "elitism" are totally different concepts. Disparaging jokes about programming languages are really tired and uninteresting, I was glad to see that the Carbon discord explicitly bans them.
- kristopolous 4y ago
  In practice they're always (?!) about the userbase. Everything's got exceptions but it's usually a punch by proxy. This would be really obvious if it was anything else. If someone started making fun of say basketball, keeping it not about the people who play and are fans would be quite a precipice to navigate. You could certainly complain about the technicals of the rules but you're no longer in the world of jokes. Given that, Haskell, unless you're a mathematician, is still one of the least accessible language outside of purely academic, esoteric or intentionally obfuscated ones.
  - derefr 4y ago
    > Given that, Haskell, unless you're a mathematician, is still one of the least accessible language outside of purely academic, esoteric or intentionally obfuscated ones. Tiny nitpick: Haskell the language and runtime is just another ML. You could technically write a ground-up Haskell program that doesn't do any maths stuff — in about the same way that you can write a ground-up Erlang program that doesn't use OTP. Haskell just has a standard library and language-package ecosystem that's full of stuff only mathematicians were previously expected to understand. :)
gumby 4y ago
An elite is a subset that was drawn out of a pool. The set of very rich people is a small subset: an elite. The group of prisoners chosen for execution today is also an elite. I can't see how those statements in any way define any sort of population subset.
- kristopolous 4y ago
  The elite is associated with accuracy, cleanliness of execution, precision, correctness, an ability to be flexible and expressive while maintaining refined control and precision. Take olympic athletes or orchestral musicians for instance. If say a violinist said they only used a particular violin because it was that which was correct and expressive, that's much closer to elitist than say egalitarianism.

weego 4y ago

To be fair the absolute state of scala is largely due to imported elitism from Haskell crossovers

chakkepolja 4y ago

/s because sarcasm

Xeoncross 4y ago

True, I was going to write something else for Haskell but realized it didn't matter what I put as I'd be called out and corrected regardless.

SkyMarshal 4y ago
Why would you have been called out for saying “correctness and expressivity”? That’s accurate, though also probably legacy now that Rust can satisfy most or all of those use cases.

ljoiajsdfwfwdf 4y ago

Haskell's runtime performance is unethical from a carbon perspective.

kadoban 4y ago
Haskell benchmarks better than _many_ languages, so that seems hard to support.