3 ms·

Wheel of Time is a great example of the issue, though. In the early 1990s, a series where the most powerful organization in the known world is a multiracial wom

Wheel of Time is a great example of the issue, though. In the early 1990s, a series where the most powerful organization in the known world is a multiracial women's group and men aren't allowed to channel because they'll just break things was very much in accordance with "The Message". But you and I were much younger in the 90s, so these kind of things seem normal to us, while it seems ham-fisted to make a prophecy conspicuously sex-neutral or have characters explain that they don't like to assume where people are from based on their appearance.

tablespoon 4y ago
> Wheel of Time is a great example of the issue, though. In the early 1990s, a series where the most powerful organization in the known world is a multiracial women's group and men aren't allowed to channel because they'll just break things was very much in accordance with "The Message". I take it you mean this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time I had initially mistaken it for a A Wrinkle in Time, given your description seemed to fit my vague impressions (from ads, etc) of the film adaption that has Oprah (and I have zero memory of the book).
zmgsabst 4y ago
Sure — but I think it’s more complicated than your description: Wheel of Time had elements of a message within it, but they didn’t take pre-eminence over the story… it was used to frame it, but that sexist power structure was a major conflict within the story because that wasn’t right either, even though it was a rational idea at the time it started. Wheel of Time isn’t “The Message” of the 90s, but an examination of the back-and-forth between sexes which casts both extremes as problematic: men can’t shun their potential for ruin, but women-only and shunning men entirely doesn’t work either. The series goes out of its way to frame partnership as the ideal — to the point both sexes are required for elaborate magic. And that complex dynamic was framed within a well told story. I think that stands in stark contrast to modern media — and that’s the difference I’m trying to highlight. Amazon’s telling threw out all that complexity which explored the good and bad within both sexes to instead push a hamfisted ideology.

tablespoon 4y ago

> Wheel of Time is a great example of the issue, though. In the early 1990s, a series where the most powerful organization in the known world is a multiracial women's group and men aren't allowed to channel because they'll just break things was very much in accordance with "The Message". I take it you mean this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time I had initially mistaken it for a A Wrinkle in Time, given your description seemed to fit my vague impressions (from ads, etc) of the film adaption that has Oprah (and I have zero memory of the book).

zmgsabst 4y ago

Sure — but I think it’s more complicated than your description: Wheel of Time had elements of a message within it, but they didn’t take pre-eminence over the story… it was used to frame it, but that sexist power structure was a major conflict within the story because that wasn’t right either, even though it was a rational idea at the time it started. Wheel of Time isn’t “The Message” of the 90s, but an examination of the back-and-forth between sexes which casts both extremes as problematic: men can’t shun their potential for ruin, but women-only and shunning men entirely doesn’t work either. The series goes out of its way to frame partnership as the ideal — to the point both sexes are required for elaborate magic. And that complex dynamic was framed within a well told story. I think that stands in stark contrast to modern media — and that’s the difference I’m trying to highlight. Amazon’s telling threw out all that complexity which explored the good and bad within both sexes to instead push a hamfisted ideology.