5 ms·

A "beware of the dog" sign would probably be just as (if not more) effective regardless of whether there's an actual dog.

dragonwriter 4y ago
I doubt it. A dog and a sign send different messages, and the message of the sign is “the resident is afraid of being robbed”. EDIT: I want to make explicit that I am comparing something that gives the impression of a dog without a sign vs a sign with no other evidence of a dog. I am explicitly not commenting on the message sent by a sign combined with other evidence of a dog, just “fake (but, for the sake of argument, convincing) dog” vs. “dog sign”, each alone, as deterrents.
- gumby 4y ago
  Interesting. I put up such a sign to try to reduce my liability if someone tried to get into my yard and encountered my 150 lb dog.
  - mauvehaus 4y ago
    My former neighbor's father owned a junkyard with a fairly mean junkyard dog. Said dog did its job with a would-be thief, and the local government made them exterminate the dog. Apparently the logic behind that decision included the argument that the fact that they posted a "beware of dog" sign indicated that they knew the dog was dangerous (duh, that's sort of the point) and therefore shouldn't be given further chances. Yes, I realize that this wholly ignores the fact that the would-be thief was trespassing and that the meanness of junkyard dogs is so well-known as to be mentioned in a popular song. And that, again, the risk of getting bitten by the guard dog is precisely the deterrent factor in the system.
    - Spivak 4y ago
      Yeah but if you up the stakes from injury to death by replacing replacing “junkyard dog” with “automatic killbots” I feel more sympathetic to the thief. The punishment for breaking and entering is stuff like fines, jail, and community service not injury or death. Despite the fact that if you were there you might have the right to stand your ground I don’t think that extends to autonomous systems, even biological ones, acting on your behalf.
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      And what would the local government had done had the owner happened to be there and had put a bullet in the thief instead of waiting for the dog to do it? It's not about the outcome or the dog. It's about sending a message to everyone else in town that that level of defending one's property is not going to be let slide.
      - watwut 4y ago
        You might get charged for it.
        oicu812 4y ago
        In most of the United States, that is no longer true. The law previously required a "duty to retreat" if the home owner encountered a potentially violent assailant. However, most states now have "Castle Doctrine" laws which shift the burden of proof from the defense to the prosecutor. [0] Most prosecutors will not charge a home owner due to this change in laws. Civil liability is separate factor, but criminal charges are rare. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
      - munk-a 4y ago
        Depending on the jurisdiction you might end up paying quite a lot of money. Potentially lethal boobytraps left in derelict buildings are mostly illegal in the US[1] and in other western countries shooting a thief is generally illegal unless you can prove fear of bodily harm since you are escalating a situation from damage to property to damage to body. While the US is rife with stand your ground laws - most of the rest of the western world finds using potentially lethal force in response to property damage abhorrent. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV9ppvY8Nx4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV9ppvY8Nx4
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Obviously people have guard dogs to guard things. But dangerous dogs who attack strangers don’t ask questions. If they’ll bite a strange thief, they’ll bite other strangers without bad motives. Dogs are smart, but they don’t understand “Hi I’m your new mailman”, etc.
      - duxup 4y ago
        Yeah some little kid wanders into the wrong space, shouldn't result in a dog attack.
        exolymph 4y ago
        By this logic nobody should be allowed to own a pool. Instead we require pools to be fenced, which is the same thing people do with guard dogs.
        kube-system 4y ago
        Pools don't jump over fences, though.
        krzyk 4y ago
        But kids do.
        kube-system 4y ago
        No, the small children who are at risk for falling into a pool do not jump fences. Regardless, if your pool had a history of safety issues, you should be expecting attention from regulators and insurers. Query your favorite search engine for "pool closed following death"
        osigurdson 4y ago
        In what reality are kids inadvertently wandering into junkyards and getting harmed by junkyard dogs in large numbers?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - opo 4y ago
    In many jurisdictions, this won't help you and may actually increase your change of being held liable. For example: >...A Beware of Dog sign may or may not count as protection against lawsuits. In Alabama, the court is likely to consider that if you need a sign telling people to beware of your dog, then you already know that the animal is dangerous. This can still apply even if your dog has a lack of violent history. https://www.drakeinjurylawyers.com/do-beware-of-dog-signs-legally-protect-dog-owners-from-lawsuits/ https://www.drakeinjurylawyers.com/do-beware-of-dog-signs-le...
bjt1234 4y ago
Dont over estimate how dumb they are. Installed security cameras, they still came onto the property. So, next I installed a sign "BEWARE OF THE SECURITY CAMERA", and didn't work, infact one guy broke into my car and simply just covered his face from the canera. So then I installed a cheap security light next to the sign that would light up when they entered. That worked.
- copperx 4y ago
  > Dont over estimate how dumb they are. Somehow, I can't parse this.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Imagine dumb is on a scale [0, 10] where 0 is “not dumb” and 10 is “dumbest a person could possibly be.” Now on this scale estimate how dumb someone is. If you say 2 (a little dumb) but in actuality they’re a 7 (very dumb) you underestimated how dumb they are.
    - copperx 4y ago
      Yes, but the OP was talking about overestimating dumbness, and it being bad for protecting against home invaders. It still doesn't make sense to me.
      - b112 4y ago
        He thought a camera would be good enough, but the thief was smart enough to cover his face. He over estimated how dumb the crook was, for the solution (camera), required a thief to walk around showing his face. See? He overestimated how dumb crooks are, and was robbed.
        mos_basik 4y ago
        Thanks! I think reread this subthread about five times before it clicked that "overestimate" was truly the word OP intended to use and there was a valid point being made via that word. Totally changes the meaning of the comment if one assumes that it was a typo and OP intended to use "underestimate".
cudgy 4y ago
For larger properties, a “Beware of Unexploded Land Mines” might work too. Or copy Vladimir the Impailer’s technique of using scarecrows impailed on stakes with the word “Thief” drawn on them. Might scare the neighbors away too though, but that’s not always a bad thing.
- mandeepj 4y ago
  Or, buy a fake skeleton, hang a plate around his neck with “ex-burglar killed by me” engraved words :-)
- duxup 4y ago
  My old man + goth neighbor has an outdoor dragon statue / sculpture. No break ins, must work.
pg_bot 4y ago
I wonder if a more effective deterrent would be communicating that you are an abusive and neglectful dog owner. 'Beware of dog' signs communicate to me that a person is responsible and they don't want to be sued in case of an accident. If there was a sign outside that was just a silhouette of a pit bull with the words 'dog fighter' underneath, I would not want to rob that house.
- watwut 4y ago
  People who rob houses don't tend to be the smartes one on the street. If you think about consequences and risks, you don't rob houses.
  - bavila 4y ago
    Your common street criminal also tends to go after low-hanging fruit. A "Beware of Dog" sign and a security camera (even a fake one) will go a long way in your favor.
- brippalcharrid 4y ago
  "Oh no, it looks like that dog is being abused, we need to get Police and Animal Services to arrest and charge the owner and take the animal to a shelter [where it can be euthanized]" is what would likely happen in a municipality where guard dogs are put down when they bite thieves on private property with all of the mitigating factors for the dog (the dog was chained up, and could not escape, and it was in the middle of the night) and all of the aggravating factors for the thief (the area was well-secured, signed and alarmed, they could not have entered by mistake, and it was in the middle of the night).
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    This shouldn't be a problem if there's no actual dog present, only a robotic dog.
Bloating 4y ago
"Warning: Protected by a cloud connected camera which will violate your right to privacy"

dragonwriter 4y ago

I doubt it. A dog and a sign send different messages, and the message of the sign is “the resident is afraid of being robbed”. EDIT: I want to make explicit that I am comparing something that gives the impression of a dog without a sign vs a sign with no other evidence of a dog. I am explicitly not commenting on the message sent by a sign combined with other evidence of a dog, just “fake (but, for the sake of argument, convincing) dog” vs. “dog sign”, each alone, as deterrents.

gumby 4y ago
Interesting. I put up such a sign to try to reduce my liability if someone tried to get into my yard and encountered my 150 lb dog.
- mauvehaus 4y ago
  My former neighbor's father owned a junkyard with a fairly mean junkyard dog. Said dog did its job with a would-be thief, and the local government made them exterminate the dog. Apparently the logic behind that decision included the argument that the fact that they posted a "beware of dog" sign indicated that they knew the dog was dangerous (duh, that's sort of the point) and therefore shouldn't be given further chances. Yes, I realize that this wholly ignores the fact that the would-be thief was trespassing and that the meanness of junkyard dogs is so well-known as to be mentioned in a popular song. And that, again, the risk of getting bitten by the guard dog is precisely the deterrent factor in the system.
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Yeah but if you up the stakes from injury to death by replacing replacing “junkyard dog” with “automatic killbots” I feel more sympathetic to the thief. The punishment for breaking and entering is stuff like fines, jail, and community service not injury or death. Despite the fact that if you were there you might have the right to stand your ground I don’t think that extends to autonomous systems, even biological ones, acting on your behalf.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    And what would the local government had done had the owner happened to be there and had put a bullet in the thief instead of waiting for the dog to do it? It's not about the outcome or the dog. It's about sending a message to everyone else in town that that level of defending one's property is not going to be let slide.
    - watwut 4y ago
      You might get charged for it.
      - oicu812 4y ago
        In most of the United States, that is no longer true. The law previously required a "duty to retreat" if the home owner encountered a potentially violent assailant. However, most states now have "Castle Doctrine" laws which shift the burden of proof from the defense to the prosecutor. [0] Most prosecutors will not charge a home owner due to this change in laws. Civil liability is separate factor, but criminal charges are rare. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
    - munk-a 4y ago
      Depending on the jurisdiction you might end up paying quite a lot of money. Potentially lethal boobytraps left in derelict buildings are mostly illegal in the US[1] and in other western countries shooting a thief is generally illegal unless you can prove fear of bodily harm since you are escalating a situation from damage to property to damage to body. While the US is rife with stand your ground laws - most of the rest of the western world finds using potentially lethal force in response to property damage abhorrent. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV9ppvY8Nx4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV9ppvY8Nx4
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Obviously people have guard dogs to guard things. But dangerous dogs who attack strangers don’t ask questions. If they’ll bite a strange thief, they’ll bite other strangers without bad motives. Dogs are smart, but they don’t understand “Hi I’m your new mailman”, etc.
    - duxup 4y ago
      Yeah some little kid wanders into the wrong space, shouldn't result in a dog attack.
      - exolymph 4y ago
        By this logic nobody should be allowed to own a pool. Instead we require pools to be fenced, which is the same thing people do with guard dogs.
        kube-system 4y ago
        Pools don't jump over fences, though.
        krzyk 4y ago
        But kids do.
        kube-system 4y ago
        No, the small children who are at risk for falling into a pool do not jump fences. Regardless, if your pool had a history of safety issues, you should be expecting attention from regulators and insurers. Query your favorite search engine for "pool closed following death"
        osigurdson 4y ago
        In what reality are kids inadvertently wandering into junkyards and getting harmed by junkyard dogs in large numbers?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- opo 4y ago
  In many jurisdictions, this won't help you and may actually increase your change of being held liable. For example: >...A Beware of Dog sign may or may not count as protection against lawsuits. In Alabama, the court is likely to consider that if you need a sign telling people to beware of your dog, then you already know that the animal is dangerous. This can still apply even if your dog has a lack of violent history. https://www.drakeinjurylawyers.com/do-beware-of-dog-signs-legally-protect-dog-owners-from-lawsuits/ https://www.drakeinjurylawyers.com/do-beware-of-dog-signs-le...

bjt1234 4y ago

Dont over estimate how dumb they are. Installed security cameras, they still came onto the property. So, next I installed a sign "BEWARE OF THE SECURITY CAMERA", and didn't work, infact one guy broke into my car and simply just covered his face from the canera. So then I installed a cheap security light next to the sign that would light up when they entered. That worked.

copperx 4y ago
> Dont over estimate how dumb they are. Somehow, I can't parse this.
- Spivak 4y ago
  Imagine dumb is on a scale [0, 10] where 0 is “not dumb” and 10 is “dumbest a person could possibly be.” Now on this scale estimate how dumb someone is. If you say 2 (a little dumb) but in actuality they’re a 7 (very dumb) you underestimated how dumb they are.
  - copperx 4y ago
    Yes, but the OP was talking about overestimating dumbness, and it being bad for protecting against home invaders. It still doesn't make sense to me.
    - b112 4y ago
      He thought a camera would be good enough, but the thief was smart enough to cover his face. He over estimated how dumb the crook was, for the solution (camera), required a thief to walk around showing his face. See? He overestimated how dumb crooks are, and was robbed.
      - mos_basik 4y ago
        Thanks! I think reread this subthread about five times before it clicked that "overestimate" was truly the word OP intended to use and there was a valid point being made via that word. Totally changes the meaning of the comment if one assumes that it was a typo and OP intended to use "underestimate".

cudgy 4y ago

For larger properties, a “Beware of Unexploded Land Mines” might work too. Or copy Vladimir the Impailer’s technique of using scarecrows impailed on stakes with the word “Thief” drawn on them. Might scare the neighbors away too though, but that’s not always a bad thing.

mandeepj 4y ago
Or, buy a fake skeleton, hang a plate around his neck with “ex-burglar killed by me” engraved words :-)
duxup 4y ago
My old man + goth neighbor has an outdoor dragon statue / sculpture. No break ins, must work.

pg_bot 4y ago

I wonder if a more effective deterrent would be communicating that you are an abusive and neglectful dog owner. 'Beware of dog' signs communicate to me that a person is responsible and they don't want to be sued in case of an accident. If there was a sign outside that was just a silhouette of a pit bull with the words 'dog fighter' underneath, I would not want to rob that house.

watwut 4y ago
People who rob houses don't tend to be the smartes one on the street. If you think about consequences and risks, you don't rob houses.
- bavila 4y ago
  Your common street criminal also tends to go after low-hanging fruit. A "Beware of Dog" sign and a security camera (even a fake one) will go a long way in your favor.
brippalcharrid 4y ago
"Oh no, it looks like that dog is being abused, we need to get Police and Animal Services to arrest and charge the owner and take the animal to a shelter [where it can be euthanized]" is what would likely happen in a municipality where guard dogs are put down when they bite thieves on private property with all of the mitigating factors for the dog (the dog was chained up, and could not escape, and it was in the middle of the night) and all of the aggravating factors for the thief (the area was well-secured, signed and alarmed, they could not have entered by mistake, and it was in the middle of the night).
- midoridensha 4y ago
  This shouldn't be a problem if there's no actual dog present, only a robotic dog.

Bloating 4y ago

"Warning: Protected by a cloud connected camera which will violate your right to privacy"