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I think that only works in the short term. When your catering to that fringe becomes a problem or uncomfortable, people will drop you en masse — precisely beca

I think that only works in the short term. When your catering to that fringe becomes a problem or uncomfortable, people will drop you en masse — precisely because they’re too busy to care. Hollywood’s stocks aren’t doing well enough to say their strategy of catering to the fringe is working: they’ve all suffered massive losses as people tune out. But it’s not because people are fundamentally uninterested: Rippaverse raised over $3M, anime and manga are setting records, etc.

tablespoon 4y ago
> When your catering to that fringe becomes a problem or uncomfortable, people will drop you en masse — precisely because they’re too busy to care. The problem is that people can become inured to it, especially if there aren't better options. That state can exist for a long, long time. Edit: > But it’s not because people are fundamentally uninterested: Rippaverse raised over $3M, anime and manga are setting records, etc. After Googling a bit, that Rippaverse thing seems like it's an opposite-polarity reaction, so it's still part of the problem.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  Sure — that’s why we’ve spent five years with terrible Star Wars and Marvel movies pandering to a niche audience. But eventually the music stops and everyone leaves… which is what we’re seeing now: Those companies haven’t produced quality within easy memory (5 years) and so people are overcoming their decades of inertia to find new properties. You can look at the different receptions of Reacher and Terminal List versus Wheel of Time and Rings of Power, though, to see that putting The Message over quality doesn’t work. > After Googling a bit, that Rippaverse thing seems like it's an opposite-polarity reaction, so it's still part of the problem. You should listen to Rippa’s own description rather than the press around it: He’s just trying to make a quality comic book, no explicit message. That’s portrayed as “anti-woke” because not putting The Message front and center is a revolutionary act, these days.
  - NoraCodes 4y ago
    > He’s just trying to make a quality comic book, no explicit message. That’s portrayed as “anti-woke” because not putting The Message front and center is a revolutionary act, these days. This is extremely interesting to me for a couple of reasons. The use of "these days" here makes me think that you consider comic books with a political message (or Message, as you spell it) are a new phenomenon. That's deeply ahistorical; the first superheroes - among them Superman, Wonder Woman, and Captain America - were created in the 1930s with pretty clear political agendas. Captain America's would, I hope, be obvious; he was created by American Jews who wanted to portray the fight against fascism, and specifically Nazism, as patriotic and righteous. Superman, too, was created by American Jews, and has periodically been portrayed as anti-Communist and generally anti-authoritarian throughout his entire existence as a character. Wonder Woman was created in the 1940s by a polyamorous triad of outspoken feminists, and her creators explicitly stated at the time: > Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman. Superhero comics without significant, explicit political messaging are rare in the history of the medium. Popular ones are even moreso.
    - zmgsabst 4y ago
      > The use of "these days" here makes me think that you consider comic books with a political message (or Message, as you spell it) are a new phenomenon. You went on a whole rant based on a poor assumption. > Superhero comics without significant, explicit political messaging are rare in the history of the medium. Your entire post is based around poor assumptions: My comment was about the relative importance of political message and themes versus the quality of story telling — which you misconstrued as some kind of extremist statement about “no politics in comics!”
      - dmix 4y ago
        Redlettermedia perfectly demonstrated how politics in modern media is often done so poorly in their Picard reviews. Compared to old Star Trek, which frequently explored current-day political themes that were subtle and cleverly told through stories where you learn they are bad via their actions and consequences (aka allegories). https://youtu.be/aQ2TQ_GRO4g?t=1528 https://youtu.be/aQ2TQ_GRO4g?t=1528 But whenever they came up in Picard it's always pointing at something and saying this BAD. Or that GOOD. It no longer assumes the reader/viewer is smart enough to make connections and draw their own conculsions. It has to be explicit to the point of bashing it over your head.

tablespoon 4y ago

> When your catering to that fringe becomes a problem or uncomfortable, people will drop you en masse — precisely because they’re too busy to care. The problem is that people can become inured to it, especially if there aren't better options. That state can exist for a long, long time. Edit: > But it’s not because people are fundamentally uninterested: Rippaverse raised over $3M, anime and manga are setting records, etc. After Googling a bit, that Rippaverse thing seems like it's an opposite-polarity reaction, so it's still part of the problem.

zmgsabst 4y ago
Sure — that’s why we’ve spent five years with terrible Star Wars and Marvel movies pandering to a niche audience. But eventually the music stops and everyone leaves… which is what we’re seeing now: Those companies haven’t produced quality within easy memory (5 years) and so people are overcoming their decades of inertia to find new properties. You can look at the different receptions of Reacher and Terminal List versus Wheel of Time and Rings of Power, though, to see that putting The Message over quality doesn’t work. > After Googling a bit, that Rippaverse thing seems like it's an opposite-polarity reaction, so it's still part of the problem. You should listen to Rippa’s own description rather than the press around it: He’s just trying to make a quality comic book, no explicit message. That’s portrayed as “anti-woke” because not putting The Message front and center is a revolutionary act, these days.
- NoraCodes 4y ago
  > He’s just trying to make a quality comic book, no explicit message. That’s portrayed as “anti-woke” because not putting The Message front and center is a revolutionary act, these days. This is extremely interesting to me for a couple of reasons. The use of "these days" here makes me think that you consider comic books with a political message (or Message, as you spell it) are a new phenomenon. That's deeply ahistorical; the first superheroes - among them Superman, Wonder Woman, and Captain America - were created in the 1930s with pretty clear political agendas. Captain America's would, I hope, be obvious; he was created by American Jews who wanted to portray the fight against fascism, and specifically Nazism, as patriotic and righteous. Superman, too, was created by American Jews, and has periodically been portrayed as anti-Communist and generally anti-authoritarian throughout his entire existence as a character. Wonder Woman was created in the 1940s by a polyamorous triad of outspoken feminists, and her creators explicitly stated at the time: > Not even girls want to be girls so long as our feminine archetype lacks force, strength, and power. Not wanting to be girls, they don't want to be tender, submissive, peace-loving as good women are. Women's strong qualities have become despised because of their weakness. The obvious remedy is to create a feminine character with all the strength of Superman plus all the allure of a good and beautiful woman. Superhero comics without significant, explicit political messaging are rare in the history of the medium. Popular ones are even moreso.
  - zmgsabst 4y ago
    > The use of "these days" here makes me think that you consider comic books with a political message (or Message, as you spell it) are a new phenomenon. You went on a whole rant based on a poor assumption. > Superhero comics without significant, explicit political messaging are rare in the history of the medium. Your entire post is based around poor assumptions: My comment was about the relative importance of political message and themes versus the quality of story telling — which you misconstrued as some kind of extremist statement about “no politics in comics!”
    - dmix 4y ago
      Redlettermedia perfectly demonstrated how politics in modern media is often done so poorly in their Picard reviews. Compared to old Star Trek, which frequently explored current-day political themes that were subtle and cleverly told through stories where you learn they are bad via their actions and consequences (aka allegories). https://youtu.be/aQ2TQ_GRO4g?t=1528 https://youtu.be/aQ2TQ_GRO4g?t=1528 But whenever they came up in Picard it's always pointing at something and saying this BAD. Or that GOOD. It no longer assumes the reader/viewer is smart enough to make connections and draw their own conculsions. It has to be explicit to the point of bashing it over your head.