6 ms·

What's python.com, and what does "python.com APE" mean? Is python.com an executable that runs on multiple OSs? Also why is the flask demo so slow? I think s

What's python.com, and what does "python.com APE" mean? Is python.com an executable that runs on multiple OSs? Also why is the flask demo so slow? I think some explanations might be helpful. I'm familiar with python, but not cosmopolitan libc.

truffdog 4y ago
Check this out- https://justine.lol/ape.html https://justine.lol/ape.html
ahgamut 4y ago
Cosmopolitan Libc allows you to build programs that run on six operating systems (Linux, Mac, Windows, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD). I ported Python 2.7.18 and 3.6.14 to build on Cosmopolitan Libc because I wanted to have the same Python executable and my scripts with me everywhere :) I've updated the blog post for context. The flask demo is unnaturally slow because my old computer is slow (running python tests in the background). plus I was using `_dummy_thread` Python3.6's pure-python threads implementation.
- kristianp 4y ago
  Thanks for the info, Cosmopolitan Libc looks like a cool project.
  - ActorNightly 4y ago
    Yep, and author is a HN user https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jart https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jart Her comment history is full of good info about the project.
    - jart 4y ago
      /me waves
nodja 4y ago
APE stands for Actually Portable Executable, an executable file that can run on the major platforms unmodified (windows/linux/mac/etc.)
shakna 4y ago
APE is for αcτµαlly pδrταblε εxεcµταblε [0], a kind of executable bundle that runs from the exact same file on Linux, MacOS, Windows, DOS, BSD, etc. Cosmopolitan is a libc for that bundle [1], so that you can write your C code just the once, and then you have just the one output executable. No download-per-platform, or that's the goal. [0] https://justine.lol/ape.html https://justine.lol/ape.html [1] https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/index.html https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/index.html
- phreack 4y ago
  It's a nitpick but I wish everyone stopped spelling it like that and call it Actually Portable Executable at least. That kind of spelling really messes up with my reading comprehension, and I think it does for many people.
  - dEnigma 4y ago
    Terrible for screen readers too I'd assume. But maybe I'm underestimating their abilities.
    - necovek 4y ago
      Screen readers can surely handle Greek just fine, the only problem with the given spelling is that it uses "lookalike" glyphs instead of corresponding characters from the Greek alphabet (eg. use of "mu"/µ for "u"). Of course, I am sure some screen readers will simply take a custom text preprocessor that will turn l337sp34k and similar spellings like this one into regular text, but I am certain none of them have it as the default.
  - tasuki 4y ago
    Well, αcτµαlly pδrταblε εxεcµταblε is what the author calls it. I appreciate it when people respect author's choice of naming. If I had a wish, it would be for the author to change the name.
    - pseudalopex 4y ago
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
Yeah “python.com” is an atrocious name for a program. Like seriously wtf.
- necovek 4y ago
  Why would you say that? DOS .COM programs were pure maching language programs with no OS-specifics like headers or syscalls (though running in real mode, they did expect BIOS interrupts), so that makes sense to me: they are trivially portable. The most famous one was COMMAND.COM.
  - diffeomorphism 4y ago
    Because you are posting on news.ycombinator.com? It might have been a sensible name 30 years ago, but now?
    - necovek 4y ago
      I would say .com extension as an indication of an executable is acceptable exactly because we are on HackerNews (and not W3Schools.com, for instance). Basically, IMHO, "hackers" are supposed to know a bit of (arcane) history as well: "hacking", to me, presumes a deeper investment in the field. Otherwise, they might only be (web) software developers (or engineers). But to each their own. (I think the most unfortunate thing is what content is present on the python.com domain, as a sibling comment highlighted)
      - jart 4y ago
        It's nothing that hasn't happened in Blade Runner. Watch her take the pleasure from the serpent that once corrupted man.
  - TaylorAlexander 4y ago
    I say that because "python.com" looks like a URL. DOS was a loooong time ago (I used it in my youth) and well out of the memory of most internet users today. So instead they see "python.com" and think it's a web address. And while I thought it would direct you to a website about python, you know where that address goes? To a website that has something to do with creating your own camsite. Yeah... that kind of camsite. And then, it's bad because a user trying to search for it using the universal search/URL bar in their browser can't just type that in and hit enter to search for it, they have to manually select that they want to search for it, or else they go to the site about starting your own camsite. AND THEN... once they have googled for it... none of the results on the first page have anything to do with this program as far as I can tell. So yeah, weird, obscure, confusing branding that makes the program hard to search for. EDIT: I could be missing something? Does this program have a different name and python.com is solely the file name of the executable or whatever? It still seems like it could be more descriptively named.

truffdog 4y ago

Check this out- https://justine.lol/ape.html https://justine.lol/ape.html

ahgamut 4y ago

Cosmopolitan Libc allows you to build programs that run on six operating systems (Linux, Mac, Windows, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD). I ported Python 2.7.18 and 3.6.14 to build on Cosmopolitan Libc because I wanted to have the same Python executable and my scripts with me everywhere :) I've updated the blog post for context. The flask demo is unnaturally slow because my old computer is slow (running python tests in the background). plus I was using `_dummy_thread` Python3.6's pure-python threads implementation.

kristianp 4y ago
Thanks for the info, Cosmopolitan Libc looks like a cool project.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  Yep, and author is a HN user https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jart https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=jart Her comment history is full of good info about the project.
  - jart 4y ago
    /me waves

nodja 4y ago

APE stands for Actually Portable Executable, an executable file that can run on the major platforms unmodified (windows/linux/mac/etc.)

shakna 4y ago

APE is for αcτµαlly pδrταblε εxεcµταblε [0], a kind of executable bundle that runs from the exact same file on Linux, MacOS, Windows, DOS, BSD, etc. Cosmopolitan is a libc for that bundle [1], so that you can write your C code just the once, and then you have just the one output executable. No download-per-platform, or that's the goal. [0] https://justine.lol/ape.html https://justine.lol/ape.html [1] https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/index.html https://justine.lol/cosmopolitan/index.html

phreack 4y ago
It's a nitpick but I wish everyone stopped spelling it like that and call it Actually Portable Executable at least. That kind of spelling really messes up with my reading comprehension, and I think it does for many people.
- dEnigma 4y ago
  Terrible for screen readers too I'd assume. But maybe I'm underestimating their abilities.
  - necovek 4y ago
    Screen readers can surely handle Greek just fine, the only problem with the given spelling is that it uses "lookalike" glyphs instead of corresponding characters from the Greek alphabet (eg. use of "mu"/µ for "u"). Of course, I am sure some screen readers will simply take a custom text preprocessor that will turn l337sp34k and similar spellings like this one into regular text, but I am certain none of them have it as the default.
- tasuki 4y ago
  Well, αcτµαlly pδrταblε εxεcµταblε is what the author calls it. I appreciate it when people respect author's choice of naming. If I had a wish, it would be for the author to change the name.
  - pseudalopex 4y ago

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

Yeah “python.com” is an atrocious name for a program. Like seriously wtf.

necovek 4y ago
Why would you say that? DOS .COM programs were pure maching language programs with no OS-specifics like headers or syscalls (though running in real mode, they did expect BIOS interrupts), so that makes sense to me: they are trivially portable. The most famous one was COMMAND.COM.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago
  Because you are posting on news.ycombinator.com? It might have been a sensible name 30 years ago, but now?
  - necovek 4y ago
    I would say .com extension as an indication of an executable is acceptable exactly because we are on HackerNews (and not W3Schools.com, for instance). Basically, IMHO, "hackers" are supposed to know a bit of (arcane) history as well: "hacking", to me, presumes a deeper investment in the field. Otherwise, they might only be (web) software developers (or engineers). But to each their own. (I think the most unfortunate thing is what content is present on the python.com domain, as a sibling comment highlighted)
    - jart 4y ago
      It's nothing that hasn't happened in Blade Runner. Watch her take the pleasure from the serpent that once corrupted man.
- TaylorAlexander 4y ago
  I say that because "python.com" looks like a URL. DOS was a loooong time ago (I used it in my youth) and well out of the memory of most internet users today. So instead they see "python.com" and think it's a web address. And while I thought it would direct you to a website about python, you know where that address goes? To a website that has something to do with creating your own camsite. Yeah... that kind of camsite. And then, it's bad because a user trying to search for it using the universal search/URL bar in their browser can't just type that in and hit enter to search for it, they have to manually select that they want to search for it, or else they go to the site about starting your own camsite. AND THEN... once they have googled for it... none of the results on the first page have anything to do with this program as far as I can tell. So yeah, weird, obscure, confusing branding that makes the program hard to search for. EDIT: I could be missing something? Does this program have a different name and python.com is solely the file name of the executable or whatever? It still seems like it could be more descriptively named.