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VR wouldn’t even be a thing anymore without their efforts. PC Tower VR is a dead end where the complexity and hardware costs will never take it the customer ba

VR wouldn’t even be a thing anymore without their efforts. PC Tower VR is a dead end where the complexity and hardware costs will never take it the customer base size that justifies developing non-indie content. I don’t think Valve would have even bothered building Index without the Oculus threat.

upupandup 4y ago
What?! You give Meta way too much credit
Dracophoenix 4y ago
Valve partnered with HTC on the Vive. While HTC has now decided to pivot away from consumer/enthusiast VR headsets, Valve never gave up.
terafo 4y ago
5 millions PSVR sold beg to differ.
- ceeplusplus 4y ago
  That's an estimated 1/3 of what Quest 2 sold [1]. And Sony already has a huge install base of subsidized consoles to sell into, whereas high end PCs required to run VR are a rarity. [1] https://uploadvr.com/quest-2-sold-almost-15-million-idc https://uploadvr.com/quest-2-sold-almost-15-million-idc
  - terafo 4y ago
    I was disproving his point about VR being dead without Oculus. Prior to Quest 2 launch they weren't even the leader, 1.5 years after that launch they are basically only game in town(not for long, PSVR2, next gen Valve headset and Apple are coming soon). And VR-capable PCs aren't that rare, you basically need performance of 1060 and half of Steam userbase have that.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
rjh29 4y ago
I agree. Games are selling 10-20x more on the Quest compared to the PC. It's making VR accessible and cheap for everyone. And the market is open for someone else to release a cheap headset if they like rather than requiring people to spend thousands of dollars and have complicated setups.
- amelius 4y ago
  > And the market is open for someone else to release a cheap headset Increasing difficult as most apps are on Meta's platform now.
  - haroldl 4y ago
    Apple is big enough to make it happen and there are plenty of iOS game devs out there to make it a success.
Macha 4y ago
I mean, so far the three titles I would call "non-Indie", those being Fallout VR, Skyrim VR and HL: Alyx, are PC VR exclusives. Stuff like Beat Saber and VRChat which are the most succesful VR games, predate the Quest, and are probaby helped that beat saber only needs the motion controls part of VR - were it not for facebook using it to sell the Quest nowadays, we would have had a switch port by now I feel. And VRchat doesn't even require VR, it also has a regular desktop client.
- ben_w 4y ago
  While VRChat supports regular desktops, if it was only on desktops then I suspect it would be seen as a Second Life clone. (From what I read, Second Life only runs on VR as a janky 3rd party hack, not an official release. But my info may be out of date).
- charcircuit 4y ago
  >we would have had a switch port by now I feel. Only one switch controller can do 6DoF tracking and I don't think it would be that accurate either.
- filoleg 4y ago
  You can play any PCVR games on Quest by either using a cable or through airlink connecting to your PC. Both are native features. I've played through Half-Life: Alyx this way with zero issues whatsoever.
  - Macha 4y ago
    Right but this is just using the Quest as a peripheral for PC VR, and therefore has the same issues that parent was complaining about with PC VR in terms of hardware requirements, because it is just PC VR
kangalioo 4y ago
What complexity and hardware costs are you referring to? You need to have a decent graphics card, which most PC gamers do, and connecting the headset is just plugging in the cables into the PC (HDMI and USB for ours)
- AndrewOMartin 4y ago
  There are a lot of us tech enthusiasts who just have one laptop for business/research, zero or one not-current-gen games consoles and maybe a sorry looking ancient desktop. This makes the Quest an attractive and unique new treat to drop a couple hundred GBP on, obviously less so now.
- terafo 4y ago
  Tracking stations are a real struggle with Index. Headsets that don't track position of the head are uncomfortable.
MichaelCollins 4y ago
> VR wouldn’t even be a thing anymore without their efforts. As long as Facebook owns it, it may as well not be a thing to me. Facebook "saving" VR is a utterly pyrrhic victory. If facebook owns it then it wasn't worth saving.
- hparadiz 4y ago
  Same. I don't trust Zuck with the ecosystem so I'll just sit it out. I might get an Index one day.
- jarbus 4y ago
  I’ll happily let them spend the billions in R&D to develop the hardware, sdks, and advertising to the mainstream though. Hopefully they do all the hard work so when a decent company comes in, there’s a lot less to do for a much more developed ecosystem.
- numpad0 4y ago
  I’m at least happy right now that “vote with wallet” thing worked this time. I’m sure they got the message, and I’m sure that VR industry will resume regular programme. It’s funny that the collective anti-Facebook sentiment is so strong that we managed to starve Oculus of content and possibly burnt through their budget for loss leader.
parkingrift 4y ago
>VR wouldn’t even be a thing anymore without their efforts. A headset with multiple cameras on it, connected to the internet, scanning my surroundings, and phoning home to Meta/Facebook. Hard for me to imagine a more dystopian future for VR than the one envisioned by Zuck. I'd rather VR not be a thing than for Meta/Facebook to dominate it.
mhh__ 4y ago
I don't particularly care about that if I'm being honest. I really don't think there's much room creatively for non-indie VR games that fit on a standalone headset. I'm sure there's something, but you can already do so much with something like beatsaber or superhot that I don't feel myself yearning for all that much more. If we could use (say) AI techniques to create VR versions of classic movies, that would be cool and I'd pay a pretty penny for it, or even VR-specific works that actually explore the implications of the medium (I could see tomorrow's equivalent of black mirror's bandersnatch doing this), but I don't feel like my VR headset is a wasted investment at the moment. Even just for flight sims and simracing it's genuinely fantastic. I'm probably never going to race at Le Mans at night in the rain, I want to though, so my brain makes the rest up for me when I put the headset on.
CursedUrn 4y ago
This is revisionist history. Facebook didn't contribute to the early days of modern VR, they just came in and bought it once someone else had done the hard work. The first VR headset that let you get up and move around with motion controls was the Vive, not even anything from Oculus.

upupandup 4y ago

What?! You give Meta way too much credit

Dracophoenix 4y ago

Valve partnered with HTC on the Vive. While HTC has now decided to pivot away from consumer/enthusiast VR headsets, Valve never gave up.

terafo 4y ago

5 millions PSVR sold beg to differ.

ceeplusplus 4y ago
That's an estimated 1/3 of what Quest 2 sold [1]. And Sony already has a huge install base of subsidized consoles to sell into, whereas high end PCs required to run VR are a rarity. [1] https://uploadvr.com/quest-2-sold-almost-15-million-idc https://uploadvr.com/quest-2-sold-almost-15-million-idc
- terafo 4y ago
  I was disproving his point about VR being dead without Oculus. Prior to Quest 2 launch they weren't even the leader, 1.5 years after that launch they are basically only game in town(not for long, PSVR2, next gen Valve headset and Apple are coming soon). And VR-capable PCs aren't that rare, you basically need performance of 1060 and half of Steam userbase have that.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

rjh29 4y ago

I agree. Games are selling 10-20x more on the Quest compared to the PC. It's making VR accessible and cheap for everyone. And the market is open for someone else to release a cheap headset if they like rather than requiring people to spend thousands of dollars and have complicated setups.

amelius 4y ago
> And the market is open for someone else to release a cheap headset Increasing difficult as most apps are on Meta's platform now.
- haroldl 4y ago
  Apple is big enough to make it happen and there are plenty of iOS game devs out there to make it a success.

Macha 4y ago

I mean, so far the three titles I would call "non-Indie", those being Fallout VR, Skyrim VR and HL: Alyx, are PC VR exclusives. Stuff like Beat Saber and VRChat which are the most succesful VR games, predate the Quest, and are probaby helped that beat saber only needs the motion controls part of VR - were it not for facebook using it to sell the Quest nowadays, we would have had a switch port by now I feel. And VRchat doesn't even require VR, it also has a regular desktop client.

ben_w 4y ago
While VRChat supports regular desktops, if it was only on desktops then I suspect it would be seen as a Second Life clone. (From what I read, Second Life only runs on VR as a janky 3rd party hack, not an official release. But my info may be out of date).
charcircuit 4y ago
>we would have had a switch port by now I feel. Only one switch controller can do 6DoF tracking and I don't think it would be that accurate either.
filoleg 4y ago
You can play any PCVR games on Quest by either using a cable or through airlink connecting to your PC. Both are native features. I've played through Half-Life: Alyx this way with zero issues whatsoever.
- Macha 4y ago
  Right but this is just using the Quest as a peripheral for PC VR, and therefore has the same issues that parent was complaining about with PC VR in terms of hardware requirements, because it is just PC VR

kangalioo 4y ago

What complexity and hardware costs are you referring to? You need to have a decent graphics card, which most PC gamers do, and connecting the headset is just plugging in the cables into the PC (HDMI and USB for ours)

AndrewOMartin 4y ago
There are a lot of us tech enthusiasts who just have one laptop for business/research, zero or one not-current-gen games consoles and maybe a sorry looking ancient desktop. This makes the Quest an attractive and unique new treat to drop a couple hundred GBP on, obviously less so now.
terafo 4y ago
Tracking stations are a real struggle with Index. Headsets that don't track position of the head are uncomfortable.

MichaelCollins 4y ago

> VR wouldn’t even be a thing anymore without their efforts. As long as Facebook owns it, it may as well not be a thing to me. Facebook "saving" VR is a utterly pyrrhic victory. If facebook owns it then it wasn't worth saving.

hparadiz 4y ago
Same. I don't trust Zuck with the ecosystem so I'll just sit it out. I might get an Index one day.
jarbus 4y ago
I’ll happily let them spend the billions in R&D to develop the hardware, sdks, and advertising to the mainstream though. Hopefully they do all the hard work so when a decent company comes in, there’s a lot less to do for a much more developed ecosystem.
numpad0 4y ago
I’m at least happy right now that “vote with wallet” thing worked this time. I’m sure they got the message, and I’m sure that VR industry will resume regular programme. It’s funny that the collective anti-Facebook sentiment is so strong that we managed to starve Oculus of content and possibly burnt through their budget for loss leader.

parkingrift 4y ago

>VR wouldn’t even be a thing anymore without their efforts. A headset with multiple cameras on it, connected to the internet, scanning my surroundings, and phoning home to Meta/Facebook. Hard for me to imagine a more dystopian future for VR than the one envisioned by Zuck. I'd rather VR not be a thing than for Meta/Facebook to dominate it.

mhh__ 4y ago

I don't particularly care about that if I'm being honest. I really don't think there's much room creatively for non-indie VR games that fit on a standalone headset. I'm sure there's something, but you can already do so much with something like beatsaber or superhot that I don't feel myself yearning for all that much more. If we could use (say) AI techniques to create VR versions of classic movies, that would be cool and I'd pay a pretty penny for it, or even VR-specific works that actually explore the implications of the medium (I could see tomorrow's equivalent of black mirror's bandersnatch doing this), but I don't feel like my VR headset is a wasted investment at the moment. Even just for flight sims and simracing it's genuinely fantastic. I'm probably never going to race at Le Mans at night in the rain, I want to though, so my brain makes the rest up for me when I put the headset on.

CursedUrn 4y ago

This is revisionist history. Facebook didn't contribute to the early days of modern VR, they just came in and bought it once someone else had done the hard work. The first VR headset that let you get up and move around with motion controls was the Vive, not even anything from Oculus.