9 ms·

I can provide both anecdotal and academic data: Because companies have imperfect reading on worker productivity, and are also trying to balance other prioritie

by orzig 4y ago

I can provide both anecdotal and academic data: Because companies have imperfect reading on worker productivity, and are also trying to balance other priorities when determining pay, high output workers are consistently underpaid, called Wage Compression (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_compression https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_compression) After getting a 2% raise in the last cycle, and knowing that my granted options were going to be worthless (a factor which is under-discussed in popular news articles), I decided that it was a particularly opportune time to jump. Like many, I was not particularly unhappy, so I had not been motivated to go through the effort for search process before. When I got an offer, my employer quickly matched it (suggesting that I really was worth that much to them) but burning a bridge with the contact you got me the new job was not worth simply reaching parity in my current one, so they lost me. If they had preemptively gotten a few percentage points closer before I sunk effort into interviewing, I probably would not have started looking.

kumarvvr 4y ago
> my employer quickly matched it I have a very cynical view about this sort of behavior. I feel that managers do this to make the employee lose the offer at hand and then are put on the "first to be fired" list. Once a decision has been made to move and you inform your employer that you are leaving, it is best to leave. Even if the counter offer is higher than the new offer. It just shows how dis-honest your manager is.
- borroka 4y ago
  It is a common view that the manager is inherently dishonest and the IC is inherently hardworking, capable and honest, which aligns with the historically common concept of "people = good" and "elite = bad." I have been both an IC and a manager, and when I was an IC I saw managers as vampires who fed on the blood of ICs. When I was a manager, I saw ICs as a bunch of whiny, entitled cogs. I am exaggerating for illustrative purposes. Perhaps the manager had not been informed before of the IC's financial demands; perhaps the manager could not offer a raise before the employee had received an outside offer because of company policies; perhaps the manager did not see the IC as particularly capable, but this offer from a solid company made them think they had made a mistake; or perhaps they thought it was a bluff, and now they are paying for the all-in. It is good to be cynical and to have one's own self-interest in mind. But the caricature that sees management as incompetent, corrupt or vindictive is all too easy to present to an audience that is well receptive to these appeals. I have met many like those, sure, but I have also met many ICs for whom I could use the same adjectives.
  - orzig 4y ago
    Thanks for sharing your experience from the other side! I agree and would add that my manager gave me the impression that I was really talking to two entities: The manager (who really doesn’t want to do a candidate search) and Corporate. People too often blame the former for constraints from the latter.
praptak 4y ago
Accepting a match is bad, it rewards underpaying. Also, the employer might have just offered you the match to buy themselves time to look for someone cheaper.
- wyclif 4y ago
  I tend to agree that too much accepting matches incentivizes companies to get lazy about making sure they are paying market value. However, I don't think most employees are thinking about changing the culture—they're just being mercenary and trying to get the best job they can.
- sparkbII 4y ago
  Not to mention they have proven you will need to beg for any future pay increases. Shit companies like that are not worth the time of the dignified.
- Aeolun 4y ago
  My employer counteroffered 15% higher or so. I was kinda unhappy there, but they also promised that I would be in a position to change things, and that has so far (2 years later) been true. I don’t know, I don’t necessarily think my employer is perfect, but they’re certainly good to me.
  - praptak 4y ago
    Well if the counteroffer is significantly higher than a match then we can talk (the point about buying time is still a concern tho).
- giveupitscrazy 4y ago
  I got an offer from a small company, more or less a startup. Used it to convince my large stable company to match and they did. Can't underestimate job security in the evaluation of salary.
  - irrational 4y ago
    Not only job security. I live just a few miles from the campus of the company I work for. I could walk to work if I really needed to. The benefits are fantastic. It is a fortune 100 company that will be around for the long term. It has amazing work life balance. I like all of my coworkers and have never had a bad, or even mediocre boss. Etc.
User23 4y ago
It kind of sounds like you put your employer on a PIP.
- comprev 4y ago
  The moment you decide to look for a new role that's exactly what you're doing. If things improve, you stay. If they don't, you leave.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Timpy 4y ago
When I left my last job the owner asked about a counter offer. My new wage was so much higher that I told him even if he offered me that much I would resent him for valuing me that highly and intentionally underpaying me.
- kranke155 4y ago
  Behavioural economics is a bitch. “Neoclassical” economists might say you made an irrational choice. Human beings know that how you feel is as important as how much you’re getting.
  - ChadNauseam 4y ago
    this is well understood from an traditional economics perspective. accepting salary matches is a strategy that rewards employers who underpay you. not accepting matches punishes employers who underpay you. If you want to have your employer have the right incentives, you should not reward them for underpaying you
- toxik 4y ago
  Couldn’t you, as a strategy, just dress real nice once every six months and then every twelve or so, you just go to your boss and say you received an offer at 10% increased salary or something? They “match” that and you both feel like you made a good deal.
  - difflens 4y ago
    Well if those were the only days that that person dressed nicely, surely the boss would notice :) I jest though, your point got a chuckle out of me!
    - derstander 4y ago
      I think the dressing nicely implies that they’ve had a job interview somewhere else. I usually only dress formally when I’m presenting outside of my company and people usually joke about my having interviewed somewhere else that day.

by orzig 4y ago

kumarvvr 4y ago

> my employer quickly matched it I have a very cynical view about this sort of behavior. I feel that managers do this to make the employee lose the offer at hand and then are put on the "first to be fired" list. Once a decision has been made to move and you inform your employer that you are leaving, it is best to leave. Even if the counter offer is higher than the new offer. It just shows how dis-honest your manager is.

borroka 4y ago
It is a common view that the manager is inherently dishonest and the IC is inherently hardworking, capable and honest, which aligns with the historically common concept of "people = good" and "elite = bad." I have been both an IC and a manager, and when I was an IC I saw managers as vampires who fed on the blood of ICs. When I was a manager, I saw ICs as a bunch of whiny, entitled cogs. I am exaggerating for illustrative purposes. Perhaps the manager had not been informed before of the IC's financial demands; perhaps the manager could not offer a raise before the employee had received an outside offer because of company policies; perhaps the manager did not see the IC as particularly capable, but this offer from a solid company made them think they had made a mistake; or perhaps they thought it was a bluff, and now they are paying for the all-in. It is good to be cynical and to have one's own self-interest in mind. But the caricature that sees management as incompetent, corrupt or vindictive is all too easy to present to an audience that is well receptive to these appeals. I have met many like those, sure, but I have also met many ICs for whom I could use the same adjectives.
- orzig 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing your experience from the other side! I agree and would add that my manager gave me the impression that I was really talking to two entities: The manager (who really doesn’t want to do a candidate search) and Corporate. People too often blame the former for constraints from the latter.

praptak 4y ago

Accepting a match is bad, it rewards underpaying. Also, the employer might have just offered you the match to buy themselves time to look for someone cheaper.

wyclif 4y ago
I tend to agree that too much accepting matches incentivizes companies to get lazy about making sure they are paying market value. However, I don't think most employees are thinking about changing the culture—they're just being mercenary and trying to get the best job they can.
sparkbII 4y ago
Not to mention they have proven you will need to beg for any future pay increases. Shit companies like that are not worth the time of the dignified.
Aeolun 4y ago
My employer counteroffered 15% higher or so. I was kinda unhappy there, but they also promised that I would be in a position to change things, and that has so far (2 years later) been true. I don’t know, I don’t necessarily think my employer is perfect, but they’re certainly good to me.
- praptak 4y ago
  Well if the counteroffer is significantly higher than a match then we can talk (the point about buying time is still a concern tho).
giveupitscrazy 4y ago
I got an offer from a small company, more or less a startup. Used it to convince my large stable company to match and they did. Can't underestimate job security in the evaluation of salary.
- irrational 4y ago
  Not only job security. I live just a few miles from the campus of the company I work for. I could walk to work if I really needed to. The benefits are fantastic. It is a fortune 100 company that will be around for the long term. It has amazing work life balance. I like all of my coworkers and have never had a bad, or even mediocre boss. Etc.

User23 4y ago

It kind of sounds like you put your employer on a PIP.

comprev 4y ago
The moment you decide to look for a new role that's exactly what you're doing. If things improve, you stay. If they don't, you leave.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Timpy 4y ago

When I left my last job the owner asked about a counter offer. My new wage was so much higher that I told him even if he offered me that much I would resent him for valuing me that highly and intentionally underpaying me.

kranke155 4y ago
Behavioural economics is a bitch. “Neoclassical” economists might say you made an irrational choice. Human beings know that how you feel is as important as how much you’re getting.
- ChadNauseam 4y ago
  this is well understood from an traditional economics perspective. accepting salary matches is a strategy that rewards employers who underpay you. not accepting matches punishes employers who underpay you. If you want to have your employer have the right incentives, you should not reward them for underpaying you
toxik 4y ago
Couldn’t you, as a strategy, just dress real nice once every six months and then every twelve or so, you just go to your boss and say you received an offer at 10% increased salary or something? They “match” that and you both feel like you made a good deal.
- difflens 4y ago
  Well if those were the only days that that person dressed nicely, surely the boss would notice :) I jest though, your point got a chuckle out of me!
  - derstander 4y ago
    I think the dressing nicely implies that they’ve had a job interview somewhere else. I usually only dress formally when I’m presenting outside of my company and people usually joke about my having interviewed somewhere else that day.