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What inequalities of opportunity are entrenched in America? I'm not American so I am genuinely interested to know.

pg 19y ago
One of the worst is schools. Public schools in the US are not very good. Rich people tend to go to private ones. Pretty near zero representatives' and senators' kids go to DC public schools, for example. Whether they're liberal or conservative, they seem to draw the line at that. And there seems to be an unwritten rule they won't criticize one another about it. In theory this inequality ends at college, because the best colleges will take you for free if you're poor. But in practice it doesn't, because (a) the good colleges do "legacy admissions" and (b) the private schools are much better at coaching their students to get into good colleges.
- willarson 19y ago
  I don't even think the inequality ends with college, even theoretically. Colleges use the lack of income as leverage to raise the quality of their students, which means you can only apply to a school substantially worse than you would be capable of reaching if you had greater financial resources (this line gets blurred at the top, because the students getting full ride are above the standard student at the institutions, but there isn't anywhere better they could go anyway). I don't think legacy admissions are a huge problem, colleges are very lenient about admitting any student who can pay their full way, regardless of previous connections (this is more true for private schools where the full yearly tuition + board can be 35-50k). On the other hand, I think your point b is crucial. The quality of private schools, especially after 1st grade and before high school, is not consistently better than public schools (this is anecdotal evidence from personal experience, which I suspect the statistics would contradict, but there are so many confounding factors that the statistics seem of dubious quality). Instead, it is the connections the private schools have, and the quality of their college admission counselors that are fundamental. At my school we were hounded relentlessly to submit college applications (we could be detained at school if we missed completing certain goals by certain days). It was literally harder not to apply to college than it was to apply to college. They proofread all admission essays, and gave personalized advice on where to apply, which institutions we had strong connections, etc. This sort of thing simply doesn't exist at public schools, and its the biggest advantage I experienced from a private high school.
  - Jd 19y ago
    Depends on where you go for college. The ivies I am familiar with separate the applications and financial aid process the issue of 'leniency' is not there (except when there are very large sums of money involved). As for private schools, I think you may be confused. Many of the leading private boarding schools are much better than almost any public schools in the nation. Counseling programs vary with the school. Schools which frequently send kids to the ivies (or ivy-equiv) tend to have lots of experience with the process. My public school had only a small amount. Some have none (and don't even know when one of their students has beaten the odds and made their way into such a school).
    - willarson 19y ago
      I tried to avoid slandering top boarding schools with the "especially after first grade and before high school". I am a byproduct of such a boarding schooling. The quality of the teachers was high, and academically you don't comprehend the gap until you reach college and realize a majority of your classmates can't write, only read for required assignments, but were in the top 2% of their school, and graduated with a gpa 1.0 higher than yours. That said, I have also met a number of well prepared students from public schools (and a large number of poorly prepared students who spent $120,000+ on their high school education, but didn't take advantage of it). I am a fairly strong believer that the real distinction is within the students (as necessitated by my desire to maintain my self-worth). The most successful students, at any institution, will be those who are self-motivated, have well educated and intelligent parents, a well educated peer group, and are intelligent themselves. These are the confounding factors I mentioned. Students with parents who have terminal degrees are more likely to be attending these elite institutions. This parental advantage may be the strongest influence in intellectual development, and thus clouds the value of private schools. In addition the wealth of the students attending these schools is much higher than at a public school (its weird when your school has children whose parents are billionaires). This wealth provides numerous more resources for students: tutors, summer classes, camps, et al. These addition resources provided by surplus wealth also confound the true value of these high-end schools. Counseling programs do vary by school, but my experience is not particularly unusual for a higher end private school. These schools will typically have 100% of their students accepted to a school when they graduate. That doesn't happen by accident.
- lupin_sansei 19y ago
  "Public schools in the US are not very good. Rich people tend to go to private ones" Nothing unique about the US there. That's been the case in all the places I've lived. (UK, Australia, Japan)
  - enriketuned 19y ago
    In Germany it is rather rare that a kid would go to a private school. State schools used to have a formidable reputation, but things seem to be changing. Parallel to a public discussion about rising inequality that has been heatening up in the last 5 years, the level of kids going to private schools is rising, nearing the 10 percent level.

pg 19y ago

One of the worst is schools. Public schools in the US are not very good. Rich people tend to go to private ones. Pretty near zero representatives' and senators' kids go to DC public schools, for example. Whether they're liberal or conservative, they seem to draw the line at that. And there seems to be an unwritten rule they won't criticize one another about it. In theory this inequality ends at college, because the best colleges will take you for free if you're poor. But in practice it doesn't, because (a) the good colleges do "legacy admissions" and (b) the private schools are much better at coaching their students to get into good colleges.

willarson 19y ago
I don't even think the inequality ends with college, even theoretically. Colleges use the lack of income as leverage to raise the quality of their students, which means you can only apply to a school substantially worse than you would be capable of reaching if you had greater financial resources (this line gets blurred at the top, because the students getting full ride are above the standard student at the institutions, but there isn't anywhere better they could go anyway). I don't think legacy admissions are a huge problem, colleges are very lenient about admitting any student who can pay their full way, regardless of previous connections (this is more true for private schools where the full yearly tuition + board can be 35-50k). On the other hand, I think your point b is crucial. The quality of private schools, especially after 1st grade and before high school, is not consistently better than public schools (this is anecdotal evidence from personal experience, which I suspect the statistics would contradict, but there are so many confounding factors that the statistics seem of dubious quality). Instead, it is the connections the private schools have, and the quality of their college admission counselors that are fundamental. At my school we were hounded relentlessly to submit college applications (we could be detained at school if we missed completing certain goals by certain days). It was literally harder not to apply to college than it was to apply to college. They proofread all admission essays, and gave personalized advice on where to apply, which institutions we had strong connections, etc. This sort of thing simply doesn't exist at public schools, and its the biggest advantage I experienced from a private high school.
- Jd 19y ago
  Depends on where you go for college. The ivies I am familiar with separate the applications and financial aid process the issue of 'leniency' is not there (except when there are very large sums of money involved). As for private schools, I think you may be confused. Many of the leading private boarding schools are much better than almost any public schools in the nation. Counseling programs vary with the school. Schools which frequently send kids to the ivies (or ivy-equiv) tend to have lots of experience with the process. My public school had only a small amount. Some have none (and don't even know when one of their students has beaten the odds and made their way into such a school).
  - willarson 19y ago
    I tried to avoid slandering top boarding schools with the "especially after first grade and before high school". I am a byproduct of such a boarding schooling. The quality of the teachers was high, and academically you don't comprehend the gap until you reach college and realize a majority of your classmates can't write, only read for required assignments, but were in the top 2% of their school, and graduated with a gpa 1.0 higher than yours. That said, I have also met a number of well prepared students from public schools (and a large number of poorly prepared students who spent $120,000+ on their high school education, but didn't take advantage of it). I am a fairly strong believer that the real distinction is within the students (as necessitated by my desire to maintain my self-worth). The most successful students, at any institution, will be those who are self-motivated, have well educated and intelligent parents, a well educated peer group, and are intelligent themselves. These are the confounding factors I mentioned. Students with parents who have terminal degrees are more likely to be attending these elite institutions. This parental advantage may be the strongest influence in intellectual development, and thus clouds the value of private schools. In addition the wealth of the students attending these schools is much higher than at a public school (its weird when your school has children whose parents are billionaires). This wealth provides numerous more resources for students: tutors, summer classes, camps, et al. These addition resources provided by surplus wealth also confound the true value of these high-end schools. Counseling programs do vary by school, but my experience is not particularly unusual for a higher end private school. These schools will typically have 100% of their students accepted to a school when they graduate. That doesn't happen by accident.
lupin_sansei 19y ago
"Public schools in the US are not very good. Rich people tend to go to private ones" Nothing unique about the US there. That's been the case in all the places I've lived. (UK, Australia, Japan)
- enriketuned 19y ago
  In Germany it is rather rare that a kid would go to a private school. State schools used to have a formidable reputation, but things seem to be changing. Parallel to a public discussion about rising inequality that has been heatening up in the last 5 years, the level of kids going to private schools is rising, nearing the 10 percent level.