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The bitcoin support is a huge red flag for me. I really hope they scrap that.

by ttiurani 4y ago

djschnei 4y ago
The bitcoin/Lightning support is a huge positive for me. I really hope they keep that.
- utnap1shtim 4y ago
  Agreed! P2P Comms + P2P Payments completes the digital revolution in publishing! That being said, I hope they open source the platform and the community introduces many payment options - including more traditional CC processing. Venmo, Cashapp, Zelle integrations would be insane!
- tossl568 4y ago
  Me too. Layer 1 Bitcoin with Layer 2 lightning is really exciting for open payments.
trinsic2 4y ago
That's another huge warning sign for me. Bitcoin looks like another system of control from the financial perspective.
- tossl568 4y ago
  An open, censorship resistant financial protocol is a system of control? How does that work?
tossl568 4y ago
Why? Bitcoin is great and nobody is forcing anyone to use it.
Geee 4y ago
It's actually really great. In many cases P2P failed, because of lack of ways to transfer value, compared to centralized services. P2P + LN might be the way for P2P renaissance. It's also a better and more correct way to use bitcoin just as money, and not as some kind of ownership token, which plagues the web3 scene. The core purpose of money is to be interoperable, to allow all kinds of goods and services to be traded in a common unit and payment network.
- jagger27 4y ago
  Not everything needs to be monetized and microtransacted.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  When I chat to my friends and family the last thing I want to do is "transfer value". My bank app allows me to send money to my friends and family in seconds and to create quick payment requests as well. Perhaps this app is just for blockchain people? If it's another Internet of Coins app then that explains the vague website and the lack of things like privacy policies. I do find it funny that they've added rules about linking to their website to their terms and conditions. As if they have any right to control the way people link to them.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    > When I chat to my friends and family the last thing I want to do is "transfer value". Congratulations on your family being financially stable!
    - jeroenhd 4y ago
      Funny that you would assume that. I use dedicated banking apps to "transfer value" because they're easy to use, secure, developed by a party I trust, and have legal protection from by law. I get it, shittier countries don't have easy (or any) access to good banks. I still maintain that these value transfers should be done through their separate, secured and verified apps, no matter the transaction mechanism. Send money in the form of NFTs if that's what you want, but do so through an app that's built to do so securely, not some random NodeJS chat app. Hell, because of the peer to peer nature of this thing, people's contacts can easily be tracked by the government. Good luck convincing the tax auditor that you didn't in fact send your parents a bunch of money when they have the connection logs to show it, enjoy paying unscrupulous taxes to your oppressive government. I'll take my alternative payment system offline or through a trusted third party server, thank you very much.
razemio 4y ago
I can understand if someone doesn't agree with the values and effects of Bitcoin but how on earth can this be a HUGE red flag?
- ttiurani 4y ago
  Any mention of bitcoins typically means a full-on commitment to cryptocurrencies. And I don't think I was wrong, because found out only later that this is funded by Tether and Bitfinex. The actual purpose of this project seems to be to pump the value of the owner's cryptocurrencies. So a hard pass from me.
  - razemio 4y ago
    I do not understand your view point. This does not make "Keet" bad software. It is actually a good idea regarding decentralization. So why the red flag? How does this "pump" the value of crypto? A pump always refers to a manipulation of the market. If people use it, and it is the next "killer app" the value of crypto would indeed rise but for valid reasons. Don't get me wrong. I am nutural towards bitfinex. Haven't had to deal with them until now. I would wait how the project develops and then maybe give it a chance.
    - ttiurani 4y ago
      > It is actually a good idea regarding decentralization. I absolutely agree: hypercore, their DHT and holepunching work is excellent. My frustration stems from the fact that nothing in the innovative part of Keet needs cryptocurrencies. Now "pump" was the wrong term there. I meant cryptocurrency businesses are trying desperately to find any semi legitimate use cases for their tech becauae if they do, that'll cause the value of the coins they own to go up, and thus making them richer. Without that awkwardly bolted on Bitcoin nonsense in Keet neither of the funding companies would have given them a dime. The red flag is because the good of keet does not negate the bad of promoting cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies are a technological dead end, politically totally against everything I stand for, and morally bankrupt wrt the ecological disaster that is PoW and the pyramid scheme with the already powerful and or wealthy reaping even more for themselves. I'm also not alone here, see e.g. https://concerned.tech https://concerned.tech Furthermore Keet developers' decision to accept that money makes me doubt their judgement, and question where their startup will end up. For those reasons, I won't use nor recommend keet to anyone.
tazard 4y ago
Just don't use Bitcoin then? Red flag for what exactly?

The bitcoin support is a huge red flag for me. I really hope they scrap that.

djschnei 4y ago

The bitcoin/Lightning support is a huge positive for me. I really hope they keep that.

utnap1shtim 4y ago
Agreed! P2P Comms + P2P Payments completes the digital revolution in publishing! That being said, I hope they open source the platform and the community introduces many payment options - including more traditional CC processing. Venmo, Cashapp, Zelle integrations would be insane!
tossl568 4y ago
Me too. Layer 1 Bitcoin with Layer 2 lightning is really exciting for open payments.

trinsic2 4y ago

That's another huge warning sign for me. Bitcoin looks like another system of control from the financial perspective.

tossl568 4y ago
An open, censorship resistant financial protocol is a system of control? How does that work?

tossl568 4y ago

Why? Bitcoin is great and nobody is forcing anyone to use it.

Geee 4y ago

It's actually really great. In many cases P2P failed, because of lack of ways to transfer value, compared to centralized services. P2P + LN might be the way for P2P renaissance. It's also a better and more correct way to use bitcoin just as money, and not as some kind of ownership token, which plagues the web3 scene. The core purpose of money is to be interoperable, to allow all kinds of goods and services to be traded in a common unit and payment network.

jagger27 4y ago
Not everything needs to be monetized and microtransacted.
jeroenhd 4y ago
When I chat to my friends and family the last thing I want to do is "transfer value". My bank app allows me to send money to my friends and family in seconds and to create quick payment requests as well. Perhaps this app is just for blockchain people? If it's another Internet of Coins app then that explains the vague website and the lack of things like privacy policies. I do find it funny that they've added rules about linking to their website to their terms and conditions. As if they have any right to control the way people link to them.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  > When I chat to my friends and family the last thing I want to do is "transfer value". Congratulations on your family being financially stable!
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    Funny that you would assume that. I use dedicated banking apps to "transfer value" because they're easy to use, secure, developed by a party I trust, and have legal protection from by law. I get it, shittier countries don't have easy (or any) access to good banks. I still maintain that these value transfers should be done through their separate, secured and verified apps, no matter the transaction mechanism. Send money in the form of NFTs if that's what you want, but do so through an app that's built to do so securely, not some random NodeJS chat app. Hell, because of the peer to peer nature of this thing, people's contacts can easily be tracked by the government. Good luck convincing the tax auditor that you didn't in fact send your parents a bunch of money when they have the connection logs to show it, enjoy paying unscrupulous taxes to your oppressive government. I'll take my alternative payment system offline or through a trusted third party server, thank you very much.

razemio 4y ago

I can understand if someone doesn't agree with the values and effects of Bitcoin but how on earth can this be a HUGE red flag?

ttiurani 4y ago
Any mention of bitcoins typically means a full-on commitment to cryptocurrencies. And I don't think I was wrong, because found out only later that this is funded by Tether and Bitfinex. The actual purpose of this project seems to be to pump the value of the owner's cryptocurrencies. So a hard pass from me.
- razemio 4y ago
  I do not understand your view point. This does not make "Keet" bad software. It is actually a good idea regarding decentralization. So why the red flag? How does this "pump" the value of crypto? A pump always refers to a manipulation of the market. If people use it, and it is the next "killer app" the value of crypto would indeed rise but for valid reasons. Don't get me wrong. I am nutural towards bitfinex. Haven't had to deal with them until now. I would wait how the project develops and then maybe give it a chance.
  - ttiurani 4y ago
    > It is actually a good idea regarding decentralization. I absolutely agree: hypercore, their DHT and holepunching work is excellent. My frustration stems from the fact that nothing in the innovative part of Keet needs cryptocurrencies. Now "pump" was the wrong term there. I meant cryptocurrency businesses are trying desperately to find any semi legitimate use cases for their tech becauae if they do, that'll cause the value of the coins they own to go up, and thus making them richer. Without that awkwardly bolted on Bitcoin nonsense in Keet neither of the funding companies would have given them a dime. The red flag is because the good of keet does not negate the bad of promoting cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies are a technological dead end, politically totally against everything I stand for, and morally bankrupt wrt the ecological disaster that is PoW and the pyramid scheme with the already powerful and or wealthy reaping even more for themselves. I'm also not alone here, see e.g. https://concerned.tech https://concerned.tech Furthermore Keet developers' decision to accept that money makes me doubt their judgement, and question where their startup will end up. For those reasons, I won't use nor recommend keet to anyone.

tazard 4y ago

Just don't use Bitcoin then? Red flag for what exactly?