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The New B-21 Stealth Bomber to Be Revealed Later This Year, Senator Says

35 points by Trouble_007 4y ago

cpursley 4y ago
Other than keeping the gravy train going to the MIC, how useful is a system like this in the age of hypersonic ballistics? Stealth or not, I can't imagine this thing making it into the territory of a near-peer.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  Russia is a near-peer and Ukraine was able to fly helicopters into Russia and attack a refinery.
  - cpursley 4y ago
    And? Helicopters are easy to hide and fly in low. And most of those missions have been suicide. The idea that Russia (or any military) can detect and intercept everything is unrealistic. I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of how these things work because they're comparing this to the invasion of Iraq (a 3rd rate military at best with basically zero air defense).
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      My point is to outline that the topic is complicated. There is a lot more to it than "x radar resolves y aircraft"
- jandrewrogers 4y ago
  We've had hypersonic ballistics for the better part of a century. We've been in this "age" longer than most people have been alive. This is not an unfamiliar problem to militaries. Ballistic missiles have many limitations.
curiousgal 4y ago
20 billion dollars oof
- desindol 4y ago
  If it’s really on time and on budget it might be the most successful arms contract in the last 30 years…
  - a3w 4y ago
    But why? I thought hiding from modern THz radar is impossible.
    - ragnot 4y ago
      Cynical take: jobs program for the senators district. Non-cynical take: Most modern aircraft are equipped with networking/avionics that allow information to be shared across multiple battle domains (army on land, air force, maybe space who knows). A stealth-ish (not completely invisible but still tough to track) aircraft that can perform this role as well as carry nukes might be useful in coming conflicts.
      - afarrell 4y ago
        > Jobs program for the senators district. Also an incentive for the US Military-Industrial complex to place a high value on the territorial integrity of the US and assign high cost to supporting a divisive coup.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      The radars of WWII could see these aircraft but with extremely low resolution. What THz phased array radars are in service right now?
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > hiding from modern THz radar is impossible Seeing a plane and targeting it as separate beasts.
barakados 4y ago
Is it really a stealth bomber if it’s going to be revealed?
- stephen_g 4y ago
  As long as it's not revealed by radar...
  - jjoonathan 4y ago
    ...and even if it is revealed by radar, if it's revealed at a smaller radius or if the weapons radar has difficulty locking on or if the highly sensitive radar that is capable of seeing it is more vulnerable to jamming, those are all benefits.
- Kye 4y ago
  The US military's strategy seems to be to give potential adversaries just enough info to make them think twice about attacking, but not enough to mitigate the threat. Russia, China, and the US know the others have nukes, but they don't know where all the nuke platforms (mostly subs) are or what their capabilities are, so there's an unknown upper bound of potential retaliation. And so it is with stealth. We know there are subs armed with powerful nukes, but we don't know where they are, or what cities they've been instructed to flatten in the event of an order to strike. Stealth planes are just nuclear missiles that fly up to the target.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  For the presentation, they should open the gates of an empty hangar.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    But that would spoil the dad joke where everybody pretends they can't see it.
  - mister_goo 4y ago
    Their landing page contains literally a picture of an empty room. https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/b-21-raider/ https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/b-21-raider/
sschueller 4y ago
Do we still need bomber aircraft when we can launch extremely accurate missiles from practically anywhere? Even if they are not "stealth" a hyper-sonic missile is almost impossible to stop.
- cpursley 4y ago
  Yeah, exactly. Even the Serbians were able to shoot down an F-117 with ancient Soviet S-125. The latest is S-550. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/stealth-down-how-serbian-forces-shot-down-american-f-117-1999-173664 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/stealth-down-how-se...
  - preisschild 4y ago
    The serbians were only able to shoot the F-117 down because it had its bomb bay doors open. These days the bomb bay is automated. Meaning it will only be open for the 1-2 seconds gravity needs to get the weapon out of the bay.
  - axg11 4y ago
    They were able to shoot down _one_. This was after analysing many sorties and a bit of luck under ideal conditions. Radar has improved but so has stealth and operating procedures.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    S-500 only went into production this year and with sanctions in place not sure how many they will be able to build (if any) with their supply chain in tatters. And given that Israel has been running around Syria with their F-35s being undetected by the S-400 not sure how much confidence anyone should have in Russian claims.
    - cpursley 4y ago
      Have you considered that maybe just maybe Russia is not keen on starting a kinetic war with Israel? Not shooting down doesn't mean not detected. Also, Russia has already delivered some S-500s into service. Their supply chains might be strained, but they are still functioning & mostly domestic sourced.
throw0101a 4y ago
At some point the US (or anyone) probably needs to build a stealth tanker. A lot of long-distance operations need refueling, and the commercial conversions that are currently done are not stealth at all and could compromise sensitive operations. * https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7012/the-air-force-desperately-needs-a-stealth-tanker https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7012/the-air-force-des... * https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/concept-stealth-tanker-isnt-absurd-you’d-think-182149 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/concept-stealth-tan...
- nradov 4y ago
  The Air Force is going in a different direction and designing their next generation tactical aircraft with longer range to reduce the need for tankers. https://youtu.be/_5bdmbOQZ_g https://youtu.be/_5bdmbOQZ_g

35 points by Trouble_007 4y ago

Other than keeping the gravy train going to the MIC, how useful is a system like this in the age of hypersonic ballistics? Stealth or not, I can't imagine this thing making it into the territory of a near-peer.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
Russia is a near-peer and Ukraine was able to fly helicopters into Russia and attack a refinery.
- cpursley 4y ago
  And? Helicopters are easy to hide and fly in low. And most of those missions have been suicide. The idea that Russia (or any military) can detect and intercept everything is unrealistic. I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding of how these things work because they're comparing this to the invasion of Iraq (a 3rd rate military at best with basically zero air defense).
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    My point is to outline that the topic is complicated. There is a lot more to it than "x radar resolves y aircraft"
jandrewrogers 4y ago
We've had hypersonic ballistics for the better part of a century. We've been in this "age" longer than most people have been alive. This is not an unfamiliar problem to militaries. Ballistic missiles have many limitations.

curiousgal 4y ago

20 billion dollars oof

desindol 4y ago
If it’s really on time and on budget it might be the most successful arms contract in the last 30 years…
- a3w 4y ago
  But why? I thought hiding from modern THz radar is impossible.
  - ragnot 4y ago
    Cynical take: jobs program for the senators district. Non-cynical take: Most modern aircraft are equipped with networking/avionics that allow information to be shared across multiple battle domains (army on land, air force, maybe space who knows). A stealth-ish (not completely invisible but still tough to track) aircraft that can perform this role as well as carry nukes might be useful in coming conflicts.
    - afarrell 4y ago
      > Jobs program for the senators district. Also an incentive for the US Military-Industrial complex to place a high value on the territorial integrity of the US and assign high cost to supporting a divisive coup.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    The radars of WWII could see these aircraft but with extremely low resolution. What THz phased array radars are in service right now?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > hiding from modern THz radar is impossible Seeing a plane and targeting it as separate beasts.

barakados 4y ago

Is it really a stealth bomber if it’s going to be revealed?

stephen_g 4y ago
As long as it's not revealed by radar...
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  ...and even if it is revealed by radar, if it's revealed at a smaller radius or if the weapons radar has difficulty locking on or if the highly sensitive radar that is capable of seeing it is more vulnerable to jamming, those are all benefits.
Kye 4y ago
The US military's strategy seems to be to give potential adversaries just enough info to make them think twice about attacking, but not enough to mitigate the threat. Russia, China, and the US know the others have nukes, but they don't know where all the nuke platforms (mostly subs) are or what their capabilities are, so there's an unknown upper bound of potential retaliation. And so it is with stealth. We know there are subs armed with powerful nukes, but we don't know where they are, or what cities they've been instructed to flatten in the event of an order to strike. Stealth planes are just nuclear missiles that fly up to the target.
coffeeblack 4y ago
For the presentation, they should open the gates of an empty hangar.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  But that would spoil the dad joke where everybody pretends they can't see it.
- mister_goo 4y ago
  Their landing page contains literally a picture of an empty room. https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/b-21-raider/ https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/b-21-raider/

sschueller 4y ago

Do we still need bomber aircraft when we can launch extremely accurate missiles from practically anywhere? Even if they are not "stealth" a hyper-sonic missile is almost impossible to stop.

cpursley 4y ago
Yeah, exactly. Even the Serbians were able to shoot down an F-117 with ancient Soviet S-125. The latest is S-550. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/stealth-down-how-serbian-forces-shot-down-american-f-117-1999-173664 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/stealth-down-how-se...
- preisschild 4y ago
  The serbians were only able to shoot the F-117 down because it had its bomb bay doors open. These days the bomb bay is automated. Meaning it will only be open for the 1-2 seconds gravity needs to get the weapon out of the bay.
- axg11 4y ago
  They were able to shoot down _one_. This was after analysing many sorties and a bit of luck under ideal conditions. Radar has improved but so has stealth and operating procedures.
- threeseed 4y ago
  S-500 only went into production this year and with sanctions in place not sure how many they will be able to build (if any) with their supply chain in tatters. And given that Israel has been running around Syria with their F-35s being undetected by the S-400 not sure how much confidence anyone should have in Russian claims.
  - cpursley 4y ago
    Have you considered that maybe just maybe Russia is not keen on starting a kinetic war with Israel? Not shooting down doesn't mean not detected. Also, Russia has already delivered some S-500s into service. Their supply chains might be strained, but they are still functioning & mostly domestic sourced.

throw0101a 4y ago

At some point the US (or anyone) probably needs to build a stealth tanker. A lot of long-distance operations need refueling, and the commercial conversions that are currently done are not stealth at all and could compromise sensitive operations. * https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7012/the-air-force-desperately-needs-a-stealth-tanker https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/7012/the-air-force-des... * https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/concept-stealth-tanker-isnt-absurd-you’d-think-182149 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/concept-stealth-tan...

nradov 4y ago
The Air Force is going in a different direction and designing their next generation tactical aircraft with longer range to reduce the need for tankers. https://youtu.be/_5bdmbOQZ_g https://youtu.be/_5bdmbOQZ_g