7 ms·

This wasn't in the paper, but men in general tend to be geared toward non-emotional stimulus and action-oriented thinking. Their supernormal stimulus is hardcor

This wasn't in the paper, but men in general tend to be geared toward non-emotional stimulus and action-oriented thinking. Their supernormal stimulus is hardcore and paraphilic porn for this reason, which then of course invokes unfavorable comparisons, because of how unrealistic they are. Women in general respond to emotional stimulus better. Their supernormal stimulus is erotic romance, also known to create unrealistic expectations, however these expectations are about men, not the readers themselves. I don't know porn much, but I know erotic romance, and it's central thesis is that it's a form of fantasy in which the MFC (main female character) is wanted by one, sometimes two (menage) and occasionally more (reverse harem) MMCs (main male characters). The allure is that she is the center of their world. HEA (happily ever after) is usually expected, especially for romance, and cheating is forbidden. Alpha males, billionaires, daddy and stepbrother types are the most popular MMCs, along with aliens and monsters. The pattern is being able to tame, or at least withstand or even enjoy something possessive, dominant and aggressive. Another pattern is being able to lay down the burden of having to be in control, or having adult responsibilities altogether. Women also enjoy reading about gay men, reportedly because they don't have to identify with an MFC. In romance it is important to create an emotional framework that explains why the characters want each other, and in erotic romance this can happen through sexual discovery. Being fated to be together is a popular, if lazy framework. Erotica without an emotional framework is much less popular and hard to monetize because the payment processors are squeamish of adult content in the first place and the readers tend to feel bad about just erotica, which is a recipe for disaster. Reportedly erotic romance actually helps women improve their sexual life, perhaps because it encourages sexual discovery.

renewiltord 4y ago
This strikes me as cultural. In the vein of "guys like drawing dicks on things". Not only do I not do that but I know few who do across many countries. This makes me think that this stuff is cultural mimicry resulting in conforming to local gender roles rather than a true gender divide. Happy to alter beliefs based on evidence that target this specific notion: that it is not subcultural.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > "guys like drawing dicks on things" not only this is true across different cultures, but also throughout history. 1800 years old Roman penis carving near the Hadrian's wall https://www.militarytimes.com/resizer/1V8zCb1tPjuWr0elUXTJhdAzi5w=/800x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-mco.s3.amazonaws.com/public/6RGIQJWCJBB2JPP6CU464BSCYU.jpg https://www.militarytimes.com/resizer/1V8zCb1tPjuWr0elUXTJhd... 1700 years old penis graffiti in ancient Rome https://i0.wp.com/hyperallergic-newspack.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2022/06/SECVDINVS.jpg?fit=1400%2C742&quality=100&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/hyperallergic-newspack.s3.amazonaws.com/up... Priapus weighting his dick in Pompei https://images-cdn.bridgemanimages.com/api/1.0/image/600wm.XXX.0291650.7055475/558741.jpg https://images-cdn.bridgemanimages.com/api/1.0/image/600wm.X... Penis Parinirvana, Edo Japanese scroll https://media.britishmuseum.org/media/Repository/Documents/2014_11/9_14/b8949820_e148_4588_935b_a3de00f6fd2e/mid_01438642_001.jpg https://media.britishmuseum.org/media/Repository/Documents/2... Phallic Fertility in the Ancient Near East and Egypt https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoS-c0ba7tknRZ8y8VarQDIUwrc4AuXdR1QA&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoS-c0... winged penis in ancient India https://www.michaellaird.com/pictures/3217_4.jpg?v=1600273962 https://www.michaellaird.com/pictures/3217_4.jpg?v=160027396... and so on
  - elliekelly 4y ago
    How do we know all of those artists were men?
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      because we know. At least for the things I've showed. If you know of female roman soldiers walking the Hadrian's wall, female painters in Pompei or female sculptors in ancient Egypt, I'm eager to read about'em. We know of women artists in Japanese Edo period, but they did not paint penises (AFAIK) But that's besides the point, the point wasn't if women sometimes draw penises, the point was that 'boys like to draw dicks on things' and historical records show that they kinda always did.
georgia_peach 4y ago
- toiletfuneral 4y ago
- sascha_sl 4y ago
  That's the worst take I've read all month. Congrats! No, the feminist work about a facist patriarchy is not actually secretly a fetish novel about the submission fetish all women supposedly share.
  - gweinberg 4y ago
    Just some of them!
fold3 4y ago
>but men in general tend to be geared toward non-emotional stimulus and action-oriented thinking. Their supernormal stimulus is hardcore and paraphilic porn for this reason, which then of course invokes unfavorable comparisons, because of how unrealistic they are. >Women in general respond to emotional stimulus better. Their supernormal stimulus is erotic romance, also known to create unrealistic expectations, however these expectations are about men, not the readers themselves. Do you have a source for this claim? I've heard this claim many times but I've never seen it proven scientifically.
- Comevius 4y ago
  Humans are pretty complicated and arousal is a dynamic and malleable, biopsychosocial process. The individual differences, variability is what makes humans so successful. There is however truth to women relying on emotional context more for arousal, but remember it's a biopsychosocial process, so some of that is malleable. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10548-009-0130-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10548-009-0130-5 Within the erotic fiction market stories with an emotional context tend to do better with both men and women, however men are less sensitive to the lack of such context. Erotic fanfiction is also very popular with women, reportedly because the characters and their relationships are already fleshed out. Also lesbian erotic fiction is two different market, men and lesbian women tend to like different stories. Stories that turn men into women (feminization, genderswap) are somewhat popular, but have a cis woman dominate a cis man and the readers vanish. Most women (more than 95%) don't care for it, even if a lot of men do (around 25%), however most of those men prefer watching femdom porn. You can sell maledom diaper age play erotica with shapeshifters or aliens, as long as there is a relationship to be developed between the characters, the female readership is there for it. The 18th best seller in erotica on Amazon is a monster romance book about milking monsters for a living, specifically because it's a love story between a human and a minotaur.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    > arousal is a dynamic and malleable, biopsychosocial process Somewhere in there pure asexuality hides among the subtext.
dicytea 4y ago
Interestingly, I can see basically almost all of the tropes described in the last paragraph in many male-targeted manga/anime/visual novel with romance elements.
- Comevius 4y ago
  Manga is a rich tapestry, but men tend to prefer younger women in those, often inexperienced ones. Even feisty women (tsundere) are expected to be inexperienced and sooner or later lovestruck. The pattern is a partner who can't compare you to anyone else, so you are automatically the best. Nobody sexualizes young girls quite like the Japanese. Also family members, probably because of how paternal their government is, and how suddenly parents stop coddling their children, like one minute you are spoiled, and the next you are on your own and much is expected of you. Women still tend to prefer charming, possesive, dominant men in these though.
  - eska 4y ago
    I think your view is biased. In practice I see a lot of Japanese couples where the woman is slightly older than the man, which I don’t see as often in Europe. And there are many Anime where there is a dominant, sexually experienced woman (“MILF”). I guess that also fits the trope of “being allowed to hand over control”. So I’d agree that male and female fiction is not as different as some make it out to be.

renewiltord 4y ago

This strikes me as cultural. In the vein of "guys like drawing dicks on things". Not only do I not do that but I know few who do across many countries. This makes me think that this stuff is cultural mimicry resulting in conforming to local gender roles rather than a true gender divide. Happy to alter beliefs based on evidence that target this specific notion: that it is not subcultural.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> "guys like drawing dicks on things" not only this is true across different cultures, but also throughout history. 1800 years old Roman penis carving near the Hadrian's wall https://www.militarytimes.com/resizer/1V8zCb1tPjuWr0elUXTJhdAzi5w=/800x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-mco.s3.amazonaws.com/public/6RGIQJWCJBB2JPP6CU464BSCYU.jpg https://www.militarytimes.com/resizer/1V8zCb1tPjuWr0elUXTJhd... 1700 years old penis graffiti in ancient Rome https://i0.wp.com/hyperallergic-newspack.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2022/06/SECVDINVS.jpg?fit=1400%2C742&quality=100&ssl=1 https://i0.wp.com/hyperallergic-newspack.s3.amazonaws.com/up... Priapus weighting his dick in Pompei https://images-cdn.bridgemanimages.com/api/1.0/image/600wm.XXX.0291650.7055475/558741.jpg https://images-cdn.bridgemanimages.com/api/1.0/image/600wm.X... Penis Parinirvana, Edo Japanese scroll https://media.britishmuseum.org/media/Repository/Documents/2014_11/9_14/b8949820_e148_4588_935b_a3de00f6fd2e/mid_01438642_001.jpg https://media.britishmuseum.org/media/Repository/Documents/2... Phallic Fertility in the Ancient Near East and Egypt https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoS-c0ba7tknRZ8y8VarQDIUwrc4AuXdR1QA&usqp=CAU https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRoS-c0... winged penis in ancient India https://www.michaellaird.com/pictures/3217_4.jpg?v=1600273962 https://www.michaellaird.com/pictures/3217_4.jpg?v=160027396... and so on
- elliekelly 4y ago
  How do we know all of those artists were men?
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    because we know. At least for the things I've showed. If you know of female roman soldiers walking the Hadrian's wall, female painters in Pompei or female sculptors in ancient Egypt, I'm eager to read about'em. We know of women artists in Japanese Edo period, but they did not paint penises (AFAIK) But that's besides the point, the point wasn't if women sometimes draw penises, the point was that 'boys like to draw dicks on things' and historical records show that they kinda always did.

georgia_peach 4y ago

toiletfuneral 4y ago
sascha_sl 4y ago
That's the worst take I've read all month. Congrats! No, the feminist work about a facist patriarchy is not actually secretly a fetish novel about the submission fetish all women supposedly share.
- gweinberg 4y ago
  Just some of them!

fold3 4y ago

>but men in general tend to be geared toward non-emotional stimulus and action-oriented thinking. Their supernormal stimulus is hardcore and paraphilic porn for this reason, which then of course invokes unfavorable comparisons, because of how unrealistic they are. >Women in general respond to emotional stimulus better. Their supernormal stimulus is erotic romance, also known to create unrealistic expectations, however these expectations are about men, not the readers themselves. Do you have a source for this claim? I've heard this claim many times but I've never seen it proven scientifically.

Comevius 4y ago
Humans are pretty complicated and arousal is a dynamic and malleable, biopsychosocial process. The individual differences, variability is what makes humans so successful. There is however truth to women relying on emotional context more for arousal, but remember it's a biopsychosocial process, so some of that is malleable. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10548-009-0130-5 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10548-009-0130-5 Within the erotic fiction market stories with an emotional context tend to do better with both men and women, however men are less sensitive to the lack of such context. Erotic fanfiction is also very popular with women, reportedly because the characters and their relationships are already fleshed out. Also lesbian erotic fiction is two different market, men and lesbian women tend to like different stories. Stories that turn men into women (feminization, genderswap) are somewhat popular, but have a cis woman dominate a cis man and the readers vanish. Most women (more than 95%) don't care for it, even if a lot of men do (around 25%), however most of those men prefer watching femdom porn. You can sell maledom diaper age play erotica with shapeshifters or aliens, as long as there is a relationship to be developed between the characters, the female readership is there for it. The 18th best seller in erotica on Amazon is a monster romance book about milking monsters for a living, specifically because it's a love story between a human and a minotaur.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  > arousal is a dynamic and malleable, biopsychosocial process Somewhere in there pure asexuality hides among the subtext.

dicytea 4y ago

Interestingly, I can see basically almost all of the tropes described in the last paragraph in many male-targeted manga/anime/visual novel with romance elements.

Comevius 4y ago
Manga is a rich tapestry, but men tend to prefer younger women in those, often inexperienced ones. Even feisty women (tsundere) are expected to be inexperienced and sooner or later lovestruck. The pattern is a partner who can't compare you to anyone else, so you are automatically the best. Nobody sexualizes young girls quite like the Japanese. Also family members, probably because of how paternal their government is, and how suddenly parents stop coddling their children, like one minute you are spoiled, and the next you are on your own and much is expected of you. Women still tend to prefer charming, possesive, dominant men in these though.
- eska 4y ago
  I think your view is biased. In practice I see a lot of Japanese couples where the woman is slightly older than the man, which I don’t see as often in Europe. And there are many Anime where there is a dominant, sexually experienced woman (“MILF”). I guess that also fits the trope of “being allowed to hand over control”. So I’d agree that male and female fiction is not as different as some make it out to be.