6 ms·

> These days that doesn’t work beyond micros (or small stakes at a brick and mortar casino.) I would like to introduce you to Hustler Casino Live. I assume tha

by csa 4y ago

> These days that doesn’t work beyond micros (or small stakes at a brick and mortar casino.) I would like to introduce you to Hustler Casino Live. I assume that most of the games they steam are not B&M small stakes. There is plenty of room for exploitative play at higher stakes if you game select well. This is especially true if one has figured out the home game scene (where the best games are, imho). Online on competitive sites, folks still make have relatively large gaps in their game up to nl100. On online agent apps… lol, gto is not a thing except at 5/10 and higher (sometimes). I will add that all of this is a discussion about nlhe. There is a push to get away from solver-based games online because they are largely bad for the ecology. Casuals get fleeced rapidly, even by folks who implement a “gto” strategy poorly. Just having a good starting hand strategy/chart is usually a huge advantage alone. The following are some ways that this is happening, and I think that these are the future of poker: - plo - more blinds/antes (3 blinds, big blind ante, short deck antes, etc.) - bomb pots - double board - deep stack (most solver work is for 100bb or less) - mixed games Plo bomb pots are typically very much loved wherever they are played, and double board adds an extra element of skill. It lets causal gamblers gamble and get action (see every flop!), but there is a huge skill element that is not in solver territory yet. Any poker scene for which a gto strategy can reasonably be implemented will rapidly wither to a small pecking order of pros. I hope folks in the poker playing community, especially pros and serious casuals, can embrace games where gto theory is not the baseline. It’s healthy for the poker ecology by keeping casuals involved and engaged.

lambda 4y ago
> Casuals get fleeced rapidly It's funny how the meta-game works here. Fleecing the casuals is, of course, the way the pros make money; so it's basically the point of the game. But I can see how fleecing the casuals slowly is probably a better long-term strategy, that will ultimately extract more money from them, than doing it quickly, draining their bankroll, which may stop them from playing or get them to play less consistently.
- csa 4y ago
  > But I can see how fleecing the casuals slowly is probably a better long-term strategy, that will ultimately extract more money from them, than doing it quickly, draining their bankroll, which may stop them from playing or get them to play less consistently. This is exactly correct. This is why it’s difficult to build and sustain a plo8/nlo8 ecology online or live. The good players just clean out the casuals so quickly and relatively risk free via freerolling. It largely only exists in a sustainable way in mixed rotations. I was an online plo8 player who had to switch to plo to increase my game selection. It got to a point that I knew all of the other players at the table, and they were not giving up much in terms of ev (although most of them had exploitable gaps in their games).
  - tempestn 4y ago
    What's a good resource for learning GTO play? I used to be a decent small to medium stakes player, studied a few 2+2 books, that kind of thing, but haven't played much in the past decade or so. Don't have any plans to get back into it seriously, but wouldn't mind getting to the point where I could sit down at a random NL100 or 200 B&M table and have an at least even expectation.
    - csa 4y ago
      Let me start off by saying that GTO is not the panacea some folks want it to be. It helps find some new lines for sure, it is really good at short stack problems, it helps a lot with starting hand ranges, and it is quite good for hu play. All that said, most gto output assumes that your opponent is also playing gto. This is usually not the case, especially live. You can node lock in solvers to address this, but that’s a bit of a dark art since you have to assign unknown ranges to villain’s range — it’s just your best guess. All that said, gto is a great mental exercise, and it has definitely improved my game. > What's a good resource for learning GTO play? Play optimal poker 1 and 2 by brokos. Good intro. Modern poker theory by Acevedo for a little more advanced stuff. Jonathon little has YT vids with some gto breakdown for hand analysis. He’s not a gto specialist, but he has one or more on his staff (iirc, Acevedo is/was one). His videos are on the simple side and are largely aimed at 1/3 and 2/5 live players, but it’s a soft intro. Mariano poker on YT has improved a ton over the past few years. He seems to be relatively balanced while still exploiting when possible. His early vids show how to play (and not play) at lower stakes and win, at least in California games. If you can see any stream with Garrett Adelstein, I would watch it. Mostly hustler live and live at the bike. He plays deep stack, and is a poker god among mere mortals. > wouldn't mind getting to the point where I could sit down at a random NL100 or 200 B&M table and have an at least even expectation If you were a winning online player before, you are currently +ev at 1/2 or 1/3 live tables. The play is atrocious. I will add that exploitative play is ideal at these stakes, and most gto is largely wasted. It won’t be until some B&M 5/10 games and many 10/25 games and higher (usually with many pros) that you will see balanced play, although there is no small amount of exploitative play when whales are in the game. Best of luck!

by csa 4y ago

lambda 4y ago

> Casuals get fleeced rapidly It's funny how the meta-game works here. Fleecing the casuals is, of course, the way the pros make money; so it's basically the point of the game. But I can see how fleecing the casuals slowly is probably a better long-term strategy, that will ultimately extract more money from them, than doing it quickly, draining their bankroll, which may stop them from playing or get them to play less consistently.

csa 4y ago
> But I can see how fleecing the casuals slowly is probably a better long-term strategy, that will ultimately extract more money from them, than doing it quickly, draining their bankroll, which may stop them from playing or get them to play less consistently. This is exactly correct. This is why it’s difficult to build and sustain a plo8/nlo8 ecology online or live. The good players just clean out the casuals so quickly and relatively risk free via freerolling. It largely only exists in a sustainable way in mixed rotations. I was an online plo8 player who had to switch to plo to increase my game selection. It got to a point that I knew all of the other players at the table, and they were not giving up much in terms of ev (although most of them had exploitable gaps in their games).
- tempestn 4y ago
  What's a good resource for learning GTO play? I used to be a decent small to medium stakes player, studied a few 2+2 books, that kind of thing, but haven't played much in the past decade or so. Don't have any plans to get back into it seriously, but wouldn't mind getting to the point where I could sit down at a random NL100 or 200 B&M table and have an at least even expectation.
  - csa 4y ago
    Let me start off by saying that GTO is not the panacea some folks want it to be. It helps find some new lines for sure, it is really good at short stack problems, it helps a lot with starting hand ranges, and it is quite good for hu play. All that said, most gto output assumes that your opponent is also playing gto. This is usually not the case, especially live. You can node lock in solvers to address this, but that’s a bit of a dark art since you have to assign unknown ranges to villain’s range — it’s just your best guess. All that said, gto is a great mental exercise, and it has definitely improved my game. > What's a good resource for learning GTO play? Play optimal poker 1 and 2 by brokos. Good intro. Modern poker theory by Acevedo for a little more advanced stuff. Jonathon little has YT vids with some gto breakdown for hand analysis. He’s not a gto specialist, but he has one or more on his staff (iirc, Acevedo is/was one). His videos are on the simple side and are largely aimed at 1/3 and 2/5 live players, but it’s a soft intro. Mariano poker on YT has improved a ton over the past few years. He seems to be relatively balanced while still exploiting when possible. His early vids show how to play (and not play) at lower stakes and win, at least in California games. If you can see any stream with Garrett Adelstein, I would watch it. Mostly hustler live and live at the bike. He plays deep stack, and is a poker god among mere mortals. > wouldn't mind getting to the point where I could sit down at a random NL100 or 200 B&M table and have an at least even expectation If you were a winning online player before, you are currently +ev at 1/2 or 1/3 live tables. The play is atrocious. I will add that exploitative play is ideal at these stakes, and most gto is largely wasted. It won’t be until some B&M 5/10 games and many 10/25 games and higher (usually with many pros) that you will see balanced play, although there is no small amount of exploitative play when whales are in the game. Best of luck!