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What everyone here that focuses on the French debt is missing is the other part of the equation - what Haiti gained from the deal and why they signed it. France

by sofixa 4y ago

What everyone here that focuses on the French debt is missing is the other part of the equation - what Haiti gained from the deal and why they signed it. France wanted compensation in exchange for recognition, and Haiti (correctly) presumed that others will follow in recognising Haiti's independence (nobody had recognised them years after independence). Basically, Haiti paid for recognition and normalisation of trade and diplomatic relations with most of the world. Did they overpay for that? Maybe, but i think the lost economic growth and opportunities from not being recognised and not being able to do normal trade would have been far higher than the payments to France. Should France have been nicer and recognised them for free? Of course, but it had every incentive not to.

derangedHorse 4y ago
The debt wasn't really for recognition, it was to even be able to participate in the world economy. in the wikipedia page it seems like this was left as a small detail: "The French managed to capture Louverture, transporting him to France for trial. He was imprisoned at Fort de Joux, where he died in 1803 of exposure and possibly tuberculosis.[63][79]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti#Haitian_Revolution_(1791%E2%80%931804) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti#Haitian_Revolution_(1791... But what actually happened is Louverture was captured under false pretenses of signing a peace treaty after the French were still actively attempting to stymie efforts from the Hatian government which essentially led to the Hatians paying the debt under unsavory terms: "Leclerc's army had some initial success and Louverture was captured after signing a peace treaty with the French general, later dying in unclear circumstances in a French prison.[6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Saint-Domingue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Saint-Domingue Unfortunately this a good example of the quote "When you strike at a king, you must kill him" by Ralph Waldo Emerson. Haiti was able to rise out of chattel slavery but still suffered under a form of financial slavery.
- sofixa 4y ago
  > The debt wasn't really for recognition, it was to even be able to participate in the world economy. The two went hand in hand. Haiti wasn't recognised as independent but as a colony in rebellion, and thus embargoed by anyone of relevance (because they all had their own slaves and colonies and were afraid for their future). The French recognition paved the way for further worldwide recognition and thus normalisation of trade relations. But yes, the French drastically misplayed their hand. Even Napoleon himself later admitted he should have used Toussaint Louverture and his troops against Jamaica and similar instead of wasting 60k soldiers to mosquitos trying to force the unenforceable.

by sofixa 4y ago

derangedHorse 4y ago

The debt wasn't really for recognition, it was to even be able to participate in the world economy. in the wikipedia page it seems like this was left as a small detail: "The French managed to capture Louverture, transporting him to France for trial. He was imprisoned at Fort de Joux, where he died in 1803 of exposure and possibly tuberculosis.[63][79]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti#Haitian_Revolution_(1791%E2%80%931804) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti#Haitian_Revolution_(1791... But what actually happened is Louverture was captured under false pretenses of signing a peace treaty after the French were still actively attempting to stymie efforts from the Hatian government which essentially led to the Hatians paying the debt under unsavory terms: "Leclerc's army had some initial success and Louverture was captured after signing a peace treaty with the French general, later dying in unclear circumstances in a French prison.[6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Saint-Domingue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_Saint-Domingue Unfortunately this a good example of the quote "When you strike at a king, you must kill him" by Ralph Waldo Emerson. Haiti was able to rise out of chattel slavery but still suffered under a form of financial slavery.

sofixa 4y ago
> The debt wasn't really for recognition, it was to even be able to participate in the world economy. The two went hand in hand. Haiti wasn't recognised as independent but as a colony in rebellion, and thus embargoed by anyone of relevance (because they all had their own slaves and colonies and were afraid for their future). The French recognition paved the way for further worldwide recognition and thus normalisation of trade relations. But yes, the French drastically misplayed their hand. Even Napoleon himself later admitted he should have used Toussaint Louverture and his troops against Jamaica and similar instead of wasting 60k soldiers to mosquitos trying to force the unenforceable.