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> Nobody can work with engineers who are unwilling to commit to a schedule. Often it is very hard to make them commit and even if they do initially they often s

> Nobody can work with engineers who are unwilling to commit to a schedule. Often it is very hard to make them commit and even if they do initially they often start missing deadline after deadline. So you're saying that 1) engineers have to be forced to "commit to a schedule" and b) that schedule then turns out to be fantasy. I want you to think harder about what you said and where the problem actually lies. Maybe the engineers know something, about what's knowable upfront, that you don't.

threatripper 4y ago
True, the problem lies somewhere else. Maybe the project should not exist at all if it's not manageable. The question "can you do it?" implies more than "can you maybe do it if you have infinite time and luck?" it implies "can you deliver on time?" and if you cannot then you should not take the project. The problem is that it's hard to hire engineers that are capable enough. Therefore we must make it work with the engineers we have and that means to push them harder than they are used to. If they succeed, then great.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  > The question "can you do it?" implies more than "can you maybe do it if you have infinite time and luck?" it implies "can you deliver on time? Incorrect, it implies "can you do it in a reasonable time, that is as yet unknown and unknowable" - which might even be quite small, but no-one really knows, so committing to a fixed deadline is at best fooling yourself, and is more likely a trap. > is that it's hard to hire engineers that are capable enough. Therefore we must make it work with the engineers we have and that means to push them harder than they are used to. If they succeed, then great. I think that problem is that this is an intentionally deceptive, demented burnout-factory, and no decent engineer would want to work for you.
  - threatripper 4y ago
    How could you make project management plans that imply deadlines if you don't have deadlines? Yeah, maybe it's not such a smart idea to start with commitments that imply dates. But that's how it is. If you want to work in your own way then start your own company, I guess. Maybe it's time to do that.
    - marcosdumay 4y ago
      > How could you make project management plans that imply deadlines if you don't have deadlines? Looks like your project management plans have a problem.

threatripper 4y ago

True, the problem lies somewhere else. Maybe the project should not exist at all if it's not manageable. The question "can you do it?" implies more than "can you maybe do it if you have infinite time and luck?" it implies "can you deliver on time?" and if you cannot then you should not take the project. The problem is that it's hard to hire engineers that are capable enough. Therefore we must make it work with the engineers we have and that means to push them harder than they are used to. If they succeed, then great.

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
> The question "can you do it?" implies more than "can you maybe do it if you have infinite time and luck?" it implies "can you deliver on time? Incorrect, it implies "can you do it in a reasonable time, that is as yet unknown and unknowable" - which might even be quite small, but no-one really knows, so committing to a fixed deadline is at best fooling yourself, and is more likely a trap. > is that it's hard to hire engineers that are capable enough. Therefore we must make it work with the engineers we have and that means to push them harder than they are used to. If they succeed, then great. I think that problem is that this is an intentionally deceptive, demented burnout-factory, and no decent engineer would want to work for you.
- threatripper 4y ago
  How could you make project management plans that imply deadlines if you don't have deadlines? Yeah, maybe it's not such a smart idea to start with commitments that imply dates. But that's how it is. If you want to work in your own way then start your own company, I guess. Maybe it's time to do that.
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    > How could you make project management plans that imply deadlines if you don't have deadlines? Looks like your project management plans have a problem.