8 ms·

To me, this is a leading indicator that Amazon's ecommerce side will falter. When I look at the reviews for an item, some reviews are high and people are happy,

by iamwil 4y ago

To me, this is a leading indicator that Amazon's ecommerce side will falter. When I look at the reviews for an item, some reviews are high and people are happy, and other people have terrible experiences that doesn't even seem to be for the same item. I think it's because of this issue, where Amazon lets 3rd seller to claim that they have inventory for something. I really don't trust Amazon for a lot of things now, and would rather go directly to the seller on their site. Especially now that I've gotten older, I just want less stuff but with higher quality.

eastbound 4y ago
What despairs me is, if it becomes well-known among the general public, Amazon can just say “Ok, we’ll stop comingling now, we’ve identified this as the cause, it will get rid of the problems” and they’ll get another 10 years of us having to prove that they have other problems (the slew of Chinese vendors who can dodge responsibility). But the press won’t even take issue with Amazon’s comingling. I wonder why. The press always seems to cry on the working conditions, without ever mentioning how dangerous the products are to consumers too. I bet our governments have ties with Jeff Bezos…
- darepublic 4y ago
  There is no big voting bloc of stiffed authors
- nl 4y ago
  The NY Times had a great investigation into the practices that was linked from here yesterday.
- bambax 4y ago
  I don't think the specific issue here has anything to do with commingling. Commingling means putting all inventory of the same item from different vendors in the same basket, and taking items at random from that basket at the time of fulfillment, without a clear way to know the originating vendor of the fulfilled item. Here, the problem isn't that items are put together in the same basket, it's that they are counterfeit: no seller should have any "new" inventory of the book, at all; new inventory should only come from the publisher. As the publisher isn't an Amazon seller, Amazon itself needs to buy the book from the publisher, and carry it in their own inventory. Not commingling, ie carrying a separate inventory for each vendor, doesn't change the problem at all: all inventory not coming directly from the publisher is counterfeit. In theory, it could be possible for other vendors to buy from the publisher and then sell on Amazon; in practice this is highly unlikely. But Amazon doesn't care and doesn't do any basic check. They are probably hiding behind the fact that the sellers are doing the counterfeiting, not them. IANAL, but since they obviously benefit from it, it should be possible to sue, not just in civil court, but in criminal court as well.
  - gbin 4y ago
    Commingling the reviews are also an issue. Reviews are basically the only way to fight back for consumers as Amazon isn't doing anything. Now if you intentionally mix reviews knowing some bad actors are in the set it, it should IMHO make Amazon either complicit or commiting a concealment.
  - satyrnein 4y ago
    Why does Amazon have multiple sellers for any item in new condition, in that case? By your logic, there should only be Amazon or the direct manufacturer. What am I missing?
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      Different products have different standards. Since two vendors control like 90% of book distribution, there isn’t as a robust a distribution network as there once was. Since Amazon is the dominant retailer, they know that it’s not possible for anyone to make money selling new books on their platform. For other products, that’s isn’t so. For say a laptop memory card, there’s a dozen authorized distributors that supply various resellers. The whole issue is Amazon saying “Fuck you, we’re Amazon” to the market.
bowsamic 4y ago
The inventory stuff is weird. I’ve had twice now where a company has repeatedly sent the wrong product again and again with me sending it back each time, then I think Amazon notices because they disable the listing for everyone
yrgulation 4y ago
I stopped using amazon a few years back after reading over and over about their treatment of warehouse employees. I couldn't stand the thought that the people handling my order are mistreated. I wasnt a big spender but still, up yours amazon. I redirect my money towards smaller shops even if i have to pay more. I’d even stop using aws but i cant talk clients into it. The cult like mentality that plagues tech is now focused on amazon web services. Cant wait for the fad to die off.
- fauigerzigerk 4y ago
  What makes you believe that Amazon is a below average employer?
  - hyperman1 4y ago
    The fact that the USA population is notoriously anti-union, and Amazon nevertheless managed to put the union option back on the table. FWIW, I stopped using Amazon when the German strikes started and we found out what was going on. Europe can live without abusive companies like that, even if it makes our stuff a bit more expensive. I know I wasn't the only one.
    - fauigerzigerk 4y ago
      I'm a bit sceptical that the political controversy around Amazon is an accurate reflection of their desirability as an employer compared to other companies.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      I worked for Walmart, as stocker, at the height of the anti-walmart (which amazon has now seemed to replace) rhetoric, While walmart was not perfect, and some middle managers could make life hell for some workers, as a company most of the crap I saw on the news was just rhetoric or things taken out of context by union organizers for the purposes for try to get a union installed. Having lived through that, I see alot of that being echo'ed in the amazon debate. Unions look to gain ALOT of revenue from unionizing these companies, I am not sure why everyone always assumes the motivation of the union is altruistic and the motivations of the company is always evil The world is much more Gray than the employee vs management dynamic people seem to subscribe
fullshark 4y ago
I think it will just be a junky convenience store, a lot of people are fine with that. I'm disturbed by how little they care about kindles / ebooks though as they've basically fundamentally altered the book publishing market forever and don't seem to care.
beezle 4y ago
I have a very niche book that is primarily sold through Amazon. A pet peeve is always third parties offering "new" copies of the book when I know the only way to get a legit brand spanking new copy, previously unshipped, is via my publisher (me) who uses Ingram/Lightning Source to print and fulfill on demand. Ordering a copy on demand from LS is not possible for the general public. So naively, you should only be able to get "new" using the sold from Amazon* (as they get stock from Ingram periodically) or by my back-stop listing which is out of my own personal inventory. What I've found out since is that some of the resellers are able to order directly from Ingram and so can somewhat legitimately offer a "new" copy for sale through Amazon. Their listing prices are always above the default Amazon price as they need to recover the Amazon selling fee (greater than the 28% wholesale discount I offer through Ingram). Unfortunately, when Amazon's stock is out they frequently list such sellers as the primary seller on the product page (buy now) rather than my own listing (which is in name of the publisher). So if you see a listing of "new" and it is below the official Amazon price, it is not really new. It may be "like new" but it is definitely not new. Those listings at prices higher than Amazon's may, or may not, be new. *Ingram is able to distribute to a long list of booksellers so it is entirely possible a book is printed on demand off an order through say BarnesandNoble.com. While I do not get any info on who Ingram sells to, it is pretty easy to track Amazon's by their references to either how many remain in stock or "more on the way" and a print order hitting Lightning Source.
ROTMetro 4y ago
My Prime lapses this month. If I can't trust a business, I can't trust it. I'm not wading through figuring out how to create my own manual filters to hopefully get what I wanted/ordered. I said before, in what dystopia is Best Buy now better/less shady than Amazon? Add on Amazon's treatment of warehouse workers as icing on the cake and nah, I'm good.

by iamwil 4y ago

eastbound 4y ago

What despairs me is, if it becomes well-known among the general public, Amazon can just say “Ok, we’ll stop comingling now, we’ve identified this as the cause, it will get rid of the problems” and they’ll get another 10 years of us having to prove that they have other problems (the slew of Chinese vendors who can dodge responsibility). But the press won’t even take issue with Amazon’s comingling. I wonder why. The press always seems to cry on the working conditions, without ever mentioning how dangerous the products are to consumers too. I bet our governments have ties with Jeff Bezos…

darepublic 4y ago
There is no big voting bloc of stiffed authors
nl 4y ago
The NY Times had a great investigation into the practices that was linked from here yesterday.
bambax 4y ago
I don't think the specific issue here has anything to do with commingling. Commingling means putting all inventory of the same item from different vendors in the same basket, and taking items at random from that basket at the time of fulfillment, without a clear way to know the originating vendor of the fulfilled item. Here, the problem isn't that items are put together in the same basket, it's that they are counterfeit: no seller should have any "new" inventory of the book, at all; new inventory should only come from the publisher. As the publisher isn't an Amazon seller, Amazon itself needs to buy the book from the publisher, and carry it in their own inventory. Not commingling, ie carrying a separate inventory for each vendor, doesn't change the problem at all: all inventory not coming directly from the publisher is counterfeit. In theory, it could be possible for other vendors to buy from the publisher and then sell on Amazon; in practice this is highly unlikely. But Amazon doesn't care and doesn't do any basic check. They are probably hiding behind the fact that the sellers are doing the counterfeiting, not them. IANAL, but since they obviously benefit from it, it should be possible to sue, not just in civil court, but in criminal court as well.
- gbin 4y ago
  Commingling the reviews are also an issue. Reviews are basically the only way to fight back for consumers as Amazon isn't doing anything. Now if you intentionally mix reviews knowing some bad actors are in the set it, it should IMHO make Amazon either complicit or commiting a concealment.
- satyrnein 4y ago
  Why does Amazon have multiple sellers for any item in new condition, in that case? By your logic, there should only be Amazon or the direct manufacturer. What am I missing?
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Different products have different standards. Since two vendors control like 90% of book distribution, there isn’t as a robust a distribution network as there once was. Since Amazon is the dominant retailer, they know that it’s not possible for anyone to make money selling new books on their platform. For other products, that’s isn’t so. For say a laptop memory card, there’s a dozen authorized distributors that supply various resellers. The whole issue is Amazon saying “Fuck you, we’re Amazon” to the market.

bowsamic 4y ago

The inventory stuff is weird. I’ve had twice now where a company has repeatedly sent the wrong product again and again with me sending it back each time, then I think Amazon notices because they disable the listing for everyone

yrgulation 4y ago

I stopped using amazon a few years back after reading over and over about their treatment of warehouse employees. I couldn't stand the thought that the people handling my order are mistreated. I wasnt a big spender but still, up yours amazon. I redirect my money towards smaller shops even if i have to pay more. I’d even stop using aws but i cant talk clients into it. The cult like mentality that plagues tech is now focused on amazon web services. Cant wait for the fad to die off.

fauigerzigerk 4y ago
What makes you believe that Amazon is a below average employer?
- hyperman1 4y ago
  The fact that the USA population is notoriously anti-union, and Amazon nevertheless managed to put the union option back on the table. FWIW, I stopped using Amazon when the German strikes started and we found out what was going on. Europe can live without abusive companies like that, even if it makes our stuff a bit more expensive. I know I wasn't the only one.
  - fauigerzigerk 4y ago
    I'm a bit sceptical that the political controversy around Amazon is an accurate reflection of their desirability as an employer compared to other companies.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    I worked for Walmart, as stocker, at the height of the anti-walmart (which amazon has now seemed to replace) rhetoric, While walmart was not perfect, and some middle managers could make life hell for some workers, as a company most of the crap I saw on the news was just rhetoric or things taken out of context by union organizers for the purposes for try to get a union installed. Having lived through that, I see alot of that being echo'ed in the amazon debate. Unions look to gain ALOT of revenue from unionizing these companies, I am not sure why everyone always assumes the motivation of the union is altruistic and the motivations of the company is always evil The world is much more Gray than the employee vs management dynamic people seem to subscribe

fullshark 4y ago

I think it will just be a junky convenience store, a lot of people are fine with that. I'm disturbed by how little they care about kindles / ebooks though as they've basically fundamentally altered the book publishing market forever and don't seem to care.

beezle 4y ago

I have a very niche book that is primarily sold through Amazon. A pet peeve is always third parties offering "new" copies of the book when I know the only way to get a legit brand spanking new copy, previously unshipped, is via my publisher (me) who uses Ingram/Lightning Source to print and fulfill on demand. Ordering a copy on demand from LS is not possible for the general public. So naively, you should only be able to get "new" using the sold from Amazon* (as they get stock from Ingram periodically) or by my back-stop listing which is out of my own personal inventory. What I've found out since is that some of the resellers are able to order directly from Ingram and so can somewhat legitimately offer a "new" copy for sale through Amazon. Their listing prices are always above the default Amazon price as they need to recover the Amazon selling fee (greater than the 28% wholesale discount I offer through Ingram). Unfortunately, when Amazon's stock is out they frequently list such sellers as the primary seller on the product page (buy now) rather than my own listing (which is in name of the publisher). So if you see a listing of "new" and it is below the official Amazon price, it is not really new. It may be "like new" but it is definitely not new. Those listings at prices higher than Amazon's may, or may not, be new. *Ingram is able to distribute to a long list of booksellers so it is entirely possible a book is printed on demand off an order through say BarnesandNoble.com. While I do not get any info on who Ingram sells to, it is pretty easy to track Amazon's by their references to either how many remain in stock or "more on the way" and a print order hitting Lightning Source.

ROTMetro 4y ago

My Prime lapses this month. If I can't trust a business, I can't trust it. I'm not wading through figuring out how to create my own manual filters to hopefully get what I wanted/ordered. I said before, in what dystopia is Best Buy now better/less shady than Amazon? Add on Amazon's treatment of warehouse workers as icing on the cake and nah, I'm good.