11 ms·

Very. It's bad. I kind of got out of startups for that reason. I just couldn't take working with sociopaths anymore. I have some stories. Serious f'ing stories

by api 15y ago

Very. It's bad. I kind of got out of startups for that reason. I just couldn't take working with sociopaths anymore. I have some stories. Serious f'ing stories. And no, I'm not just "player hating." A lot of it didn't even involve me. I just couldn't take working in proximity to such sleaze. Tech's had this reputation as a place where fortunes can be made. That's going to attract a lot of ambitious and creative people, but it's also going to attract a lot of scum. What amazes me about my personal experiences is how unsuccessful a lot of the sociopathic behavior was. It really brought home to me that these people have a mental illness. In the same way that someone with severe OCD will do things like wash their hands until the skin comes off, these people are neurotically compelled to dominate others even if doing so actually harms them. They must win their petty battles and dominate those seen as weaker, even if it means losing in the real world. I literally watched the moment at which a pathological sociopath tanked a million-dollar opportunity because he had to try to put one over on his partner. Had to.

nickpinkston 15y ago
Here you're allowed to hate the players, and their games...
- rhizome 15y ago
  As it should be. Hip-hop damaged humanity's brain with that one line.
pavel_lishin 15y ago
Would you be willing to do an anonymous AMA, or write up some of your experiences?
- sinope 15y ago
  I can confirm that sociopaths are like this, and that they are a large part of why I won't be a part of the startup industry anymore very soon.
- api 15y ago
  I'll do a quick summary. Episode 1: (this is the one that most directly affected me) I was working on a very interesting but somewhat far-off technology. I did some tech talks about it, and put them on Google Video. Was approached by a guy who said he was a wealthy early-stage technology investor. He showed me a lot of stuff that indicated that this was the case, had a lot of real people vouching for him, etc. He made me an offer of a cash investment over a period of two years in exchange for a percentage ownership in a company I would create. I got a lawyer, did a contract, and was very excited. We'd work with early stage customers, iterate, and he'd support the hiring of two additional people to do R&D work. (The technology was a machine learning application.) He even had some existing customers lined up and interested in bio-medical, oil and gas, and other industries. Came to find out that: a) this guy has almost no money at all and is a complete fraud, b) everyone he associated with literally has a different picture of reality. It was pretty amazing. Some people thought he was associated with a company that he only acted as a salesman for, for example. I walk. In doing so I have to walk away from approximately three years of work because the ownership of said work is now tied to an entity that this guy could have a potential claim on. Guy turns out to also be a f'ing lunatic. He threatens my life verbally. I contemplate buying a handgun. Episode 2: I meet a promising entrepreneur who is interested in bio-med stuff. He's working on a protein classification company. He asks me if I'd be interested in joining as a software engineer. I say sure. He sends my resume out to his investors, only he's listing me as having degrees I don't have. I e-mail him about this. He asks me to personally write up a CV and coaches me on how to pad my resume. I walk. Episode 3: I join a consulting firm that does early stage tech R&D and business consulting for startups. This one involves me only indirectly, but while there I get to witness several pieces of rather astounding sleazery. One episode involved a company that was formed to build a video delivery device. We did a bunch of R&D for them. They were basically a sales pit: founder was a salesman, and he hired a bunch of salesmen to go sell ahead into the market and hired us to build a prototype. (Nothing wrong so far.) But the market didn't seem to be too interested, so he pulled the plug. Walked. Left our firm with almost $100k in uncollected bills. We do some investigation and find out that this guy's name is on over a dozen defunct LLCs. Another episode involved a guy who was "known" as a "genius," a "business God" as one person called him. In this case we did actually get paid, but... the guy was a complete f'ing lunatic. He would berate and insult his employees, sexually harass women, and we come to find out that he'd been sued multiple times by previous partners. We were lucky to get paid... mostly because someone other than this guy was footing the bill. (That someone later pulled the plug.) Consulting firm shutters its doors. I can't blame the guy. I mean... I didn't have to actually negotiate with these pricks. I just worked for the place. He did. Episode 4: Join a startup doing mobile devices. We get funded to develop something, and we're on the verge of making a sale, when the parent company decides to pull the plug. We were inches away. Millimeters away. Then the parent company decides to screw over our development partner. That's it. I'm out. No more startups for me, unless it's my own. Now here is my question: Do they actually teach this s--t in business school? What the hell? I had a friend when I was much younger who got into some shady stuff including drug trafficking, and he told me a lot of stories. None of them approached what I experienced in the "legitimate" business world.
winter_blue 15y ago
Would you be interested in putting your e-mail on your profile, or writing more about this. I would like to hear more on it.
cageface 15y ago
I'm not willing to go into specifics, but I will say that I saw worse things in the biotech industry. Having something in the pipeline for human clinical trials really boosts the IPO, even if maybe it doesn't belong there.
- api 15y ago
  I've seen that too, and I've heard some whoppers of stories. Like, stuff that does not even slightly exist. Pig, meet lipstick. Like I said in another part of the thread: the stock market is the dumbest money around.
  - cageface 15y ago
    It looks that way to me too. I wish I knew of a smarter place to put it.
    - forensic 15y ago
      Your own business. Children. Real estate. These long-term investments are as old as time itself, and they do pay off.

by api 15y ago

nickpinkston 15y ago

Here you're allowed to hate the players, and their games...

rhizome 15y ago
As it should be. Hip-hop damaged humanity's brain with that one line.

pavel_lishin 15y ago

Would you be willing to do an anonymous AMA, or write up some of your experiences?

sinope 15y ago
I can confirm that sociopaths are like this, and that they are a large part of why I won't be a part of the startup industry anymore very soon.
api 15y ago
I'll do a quick summary. Episode 1: (this is the one that most directly affected me) I was working on a very interesting but somewhat far-off technology. I did some tech talks about it, and put them on Google Video. Was approached by a guy who said he was a wealthy early-stage technology investor. He showed me a lot of stuff that indicated that this was the case, had a lot of real people vouching for him, etc. He made me an offer of a cash investment over a period of two years in exchange for a percentage ownership in a company I would create. I got a lawyer, did a contract, and was very excited. We'd work with early stage customers, iterate, and he'd support the hiring of two additional people to do R&D work. (The technology was a machine learning application.) He even had some existing customers lined up and interested in bio-medical, oil and gas, and other industries. Came to find out that: a) this guy has almost no money at all and is a complete fraud, b) everyone he associated with literally has a different picture of reality. It was pretty amazing. Some people thought he was associated with a company that he only acted as a salesman for, for example. I walk. In doing so I have to walk away from approximately three years of work because the ownership of said work is now tied to an entity that this guy could have a potential claim on. Guy turns out to also be a f'ing lunatic. He threatens my life verbally. I contemplate buying a handgun. Episode 2: I meet a promising entrepreneur who is interested in bio-med stuff. He's working on a protein classification company. He asks me if I'd be interested in joining as a software engineer. I say sure. He sends my resume out to his investors, only he's listing me as having degrees I don't have. I e-mail him about this. He asks me to personally write up a CV and coaches me on how to pad my resume. I walk. Episode 3: I join a consulting firm that does early stage tech R&D and business consulting for startups. This one involves me only indirectly, but while there I get to witness several pieces of rather astounding sleazery. One episode involved a company that was formed to build a video delivery device. We did a bunch of R&D for them. They were basically a sales pit: founder was a salesman, and he hired a bunch of salesmen to go sell ahead into the market and hired us to build a prototype. (Nothing wrong so far.) But the market didn't seem to be too interested, so he pulled the plug. Walked. Left our firm with almost $100k in uncollected bills. We do some investigation and find out that this guy's name is on over a dozen defunct LLCs. Another episode involved a guy who was "known" as a "genius," a "business God" as one person called him. In this case we did actually get paid, but... the guy was a complete f'ing lunatic. He would berate and insult his employees, sexually harass women, and we come to find out that he'd been sued multiple times by previous partners. We were lucky to get paid... mostly because someone other than this guy was footing the bill. (That someone later pulled the plug.) Consulting firm shutters its doors. I can't blame the guy. I mean... I didn't have to actually negotiate with these pricks. I just worked for the place. He did. Episode 4: Join a startup doing mobile devices. We get funded to develop something, and we're on the verge of making a sale, when the parent company decides to pull the plug. We were inches away. Millimeters away. Then the parent company decides to screw over our development partner. That's it. I'm out. No more startups for me, unless it's my own. Now here is my question: Do they actually teach this s--t in business school? What the hell? I had a friend when I was much younger who got into some shady stuff including drug trafficking, and he told me a lot of stories. None of them approached what I experienced in the "legitimate" business world.

winter_blue 15y ago

Would you be interested in putting your e-mail on your profile, or writing more about this. I would like to hear more on it.

cageface 15y ago

I'm not willing to go into specifics, but I will say that I saw worse things in the biotech industry. Having something in the pipeline for human clinical trials really boosts the IPO, even if maybe it doesn't belong there.

api 15y ago
I've seen that too, and I've heard some whoppers of stories. Like, stuff that does not even slightly exist. Pig, meet lipstick. Like I said in another part of the thread: the stock market is the dumbest money around.
- cageface 15y ago
  It looks that way to me too. I wish I knew of a smarter place to put it.
  - forensic 15y ago
    Your own business. Children. Real estate. These long-term investments are as old as time itself, and they do pay off.