4 ms·
So Mexico is highly ranked and Italy is near the bottom? Sure, Italy is drowning in red tape, but bureaucracy in Mexico is greased with corruption. And by nea
by SeanLuke 4y ago
So Mexico is highly ranked and Italy is near the bottom? Sure, Italy is drowning in red tape, but bureaucracy in Mexico is greased with corruption. And by nearly any quality of life measure I can think of, Italy is far, far ahead of Mexico. There is something very seriously wrong with this ranking system.
It also depends on where you're applying for stuff in Italy. For example, I had to apply for a Permesso di Soggiorno (kind of the Italian green card) to stay longer than normal for a sabbatical. In Rome it was essentially impossible: unbelievable intentional roadblocks were put up at every stage, all the way down to the application station being in a pseudo-prison far outside of Rome with no bus service. Very clearly designed, at all cost, to prevent people from applying. I eventually gave up applying in Rome. BUT in Forli, in Northern Italy, application was a breeze, straightforward and fast, helpful service with a smile.
- iso8859-1 4y agoMaybe it is because a lot of US citizens go to Mexico to surf and drink but don't really settle, and hence don't need bureaucracy? There are many different kinds of expats.
- ianai 4y agoI don’t think I’d step foot in Italy with how their legal system works. Guilty until proven innocent.
- JustARandomGuy 4y agoNot knowing anything about Italy myself, can you expand or link to something describing the problems? Would like to learn more.
- Cupertino95014 4y agoHe's probably thinking of Amanda Knox [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Knox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Knox
- ianai 4y agoHers is a good example. But realistically it’s important to be aware of differences in fundamental things like legal systems just like cultural differences when traveling or discussions like this about places expats like or don’t. You can just go on YouTube and hear accounts of this type of stuff and culture shock is real. It’s possible to get serious culture shock going from one US state to another (or town/city) so of course different countries are going to be consequential.
- seanhunter 4y agoNot sure where you got that from, but that's not how Italian law works. 'The Italian criminal system is broadly an adversarial system and is governed by the presumption of innocence. The burden of proof falls on the Public Prosecutor, who must prove the guilt of an accused person. The standard of proof required is "beyond a reasonable doubt". Unless this standard is met the defendant must be acquitted. The court must consider and evaluate any doubt a reasonable person could have.'[1] [1] https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-007-7826?contextData=%28sc.Default%29&transitionType=Default#co_anchor_a389887 https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-007-7826?contex...
- ianai 4y agoQuick google shows that to be not entirely accurate. It’s a complicated system in ways I wouldn’t want to go near. https://www.britannica.com/place/Italy/Justice https://www.britannica.com/place/Italy/Justice
- mdp2021 4y agoIt is still obscure - after having read the section in the Britannica - what you find "to be avoided".
- SeanLuke 4y agoI see nothing in that link that suggests anything of the sort. The problem Amanda Knox faced -- and I presume this is really boiling down to her -- is that Italy doesn't have double jeopardy. So the prosecutor kept retrying her, and the court kept acquitting her. If you don't like that I suggest you also stay away from Japan, among many Asian countries. Though Japan has double jeopardy, sort of, police can and will arrest you, hold you for a significant amount of time, then release you prior to trial and re-arrest you again over and over again, just by adding new trivial charges. This is what happened to Carlos Ghosn (whether he deserved it is another question).
- ianai 4y agoPlease don’t presume to know me nor my personal thoughts. Thanks for really weirding me out.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago> And by nearly any quality of life measure I can think of, Italy is far, far ahead of Mexico. I agree with you that Italy is probably hands down a better choice - but if you want to live in a city - it is tough to beat the nicer neighborhoods in Mexico City for quality of life and affordability and being in the same time zone. If you want to live in the hills, or a small town, Italy is tough to beat.
- Jcampuzano2 4y agoLived in Mexico for the better part of this year until recent. Wholeheartedly agree. Could still be in the same time zone (or close) as my job so no issues there, CDMX is extremely affordable by US standards, the city is beautiful (in the nicer neighborhoods) and the weather is great during the dry season. Plenty of co-working spaces or cafes to go to, and the city is very friendly to expats from my experience. Helps also knowing Spanish but I know plenty of friends who didn't know a word of it and enjoy their experience.
- iso8859-1 4y agoHow did you get to know people in CDMX?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- m463 4y agoHonestly, it sounds like the DMV in california. The DMV locations in populated areas have long lines and wait times, but the ones in outlying areas are less crowded and even pleasant.
- khuey 4y agoEven in urban California the DMV is mostly fine if you have an appointment.
- aaron695 4y ago