5 ms·

America Is Exceptional at Killing Americans Early

43 points by laurex 4y ago

newaccount2021 4y ago
stop50 4y ago
I knew that the healthcare system in the us kills people, but i never thought that its that bad.
- EddieDante 4y ago
  Most Americans die of America itself.
  - redmen 4y ago
    America metastasized
SoftTalker 4y ago
I do not think this is a matter of different approaches to health care, at least nod directly. Many young Americans are just not taking care of themselves. Every day I see 20, 30, 40-somethings who are grossly obese. Just this one factor is going to lead to worse outcomes and higher mortality for COVID as well as most other diseases and accidents across the board.
- somewhereoutth 4y ago
  - redmen 4y ago
  - rhcom2 4y ago
    My grocery store has plenty of fresh produce, what's different about it compared to a EU veggie?
    - redmen 4y ago
      American produce is a problem but I think only 1 percent of people know how to cook their own food. Instead they buy from restaurants and then are bewildered when their bank accounts are empty and they are fat and with bad skin. Education in America is worse than growing up in the Bush.
      - rhcom2 4y ago
        > American produce is a problem Besides our insistence on having everything even if it is out of season, which isn't really a problem with the produce itself, what is America's produce problem?
        redmen 4y ago
        Not sure what the problem is but you can experience symptoms. Bad farming practices, poor soil are some of my guesses. How expensive things are that are grown locally. Just because you cannot identify the problems doesn't mean they don't exist.
        redmen 4y ago
        I like how this gets down voted by saying the obvious thing. Everyone for some reason thinks if you can't create a formula then you are wrong. When did people become so incredibly un insightful?
    - trinovantes 4y ago
      There's lots of Americans especially those in poor/minority neighborhoods that don't have access to fresh produce. Look up "food deserts"
  - bluejekyll 4y ago
    “All of America's problems I could have worked around, one way or another, but not the food.” What? I’m not sure what you are referring to. Yes, there are lots of options in the grocery store that are horrible for you, but you don’t need to buy it. There are plenty of farmers markets around, there is good produce in many (most?) markets. Personal choice is a huge factor in all of this. Time to prepare food is a problem for many overworked Americans, and I suspect this is the bigger issue. The choice for a quick and easy (bad for you) meal is enticing when you might be working multiple jobs.
    - orwin 4y ago
      Well mostly agree, but they are outliers. I've been at a place in West Virginia where the closest store was a small Piggly Wiggly, and it was still a 30 minute drive. You could go to the Farmer market in Hungtington, but it was a 1:30h drive at least (don't remember exactly where was the market, if it was downtown it might have been more). Luckily there was a lot of Shitake, lot of salads and cultivated vegetables directly at the house, but i will remember this store all my life.
    - somewhereoutth 4y ago
      You can't prepare all your food yourself from specialist suppliers, even if you could find such that were actually what they claimed to be, and how would you know? There is no food regulation as we understand it in the EU. Anyone can sell anything as anything, buyer beware!
  - Melting_Harps 4y ago
    > Short of having food flown in from the EU, there is no way to avoid it, it is in your entire food chain, from top end restaurants to fast food. Even the Apple cafeteria with its hilarious ever novel meal names! Preface: I live in the EU (again) and worked in farm to table agrotourisms and even spent time in Michelin kitchens in both Europe and US and worked as a horticulture Farm manager on Biodynamc and Organic farms for the majority of my culinary career. There is no need to fly anything in from the EU, other fine things like charcuterie, cheese or wine, because their is enough organic and biodynamic produce to feed a great deal of the US population; the issue is that very few Americans value good food and are prepared to pay the higher costs for cleaner more nutrient dense food--so produce managers are less inclined to buy more than 'just enough.' Also, most in the US place greater value in quantity over quality and that is a quality that I really think holds things back the most. It's a dilemma that I understand as a millennial, wherein you are constantly asked to take more and more of your paycheck to offset ever-growing costs of living and food ends up becoming the last part of your discretionary budget due to high rents with a majority of wages that cannot keep up with inflation. Gen Z is woefully stuck in this space by default. Where I take issue is when those same people are buying new phones every year and leasing cars with high interest rate and ordering doordash after dropping $100+ at the bar and a uber ride home. It's a problem without an easy solution because you can see it from both sides and it's not clear how to go about it, personally I always spent most of my money on food, be it at the grocery store or restaurants, but that is because I come from a culture that values the things cuisine avails about most things in Life, so it's not a hard sale. Prior to COVID I really thought we were on the road to get food culture closer to European and Asian standards int he US, but sadly... most of that has been lost. What should be noted is that their is a reason a hegemonic Megacorp like Amazon has not only purchased Whole Foods, but also moved into the medical field with it's acquisition of One Medical and they understand having a presence in all tiers of the spectrum and have tons of data from millions of people's food purchases via prime. > All of America's problems I could have worked around, one way or another, but not the food. >> Everyday, and I do mean everyday, back in the 'poor' western European country I now live, I celebrate and feel thankful for the decent clean tasty healthy food abundant everywhere. Agreed, (to an extent), but I live in Eastern Europe and I have to settle for un-certified Bio farm products at the farmers markets and Bio stuff from Germany/Austria/Italy/Spain sold at the (mainly German) Super Markets. It's not inexpensive to eat this way, but it's worth it to me.
  - srvmshr 4y ago
    A long time ago, I saw the documentary "Supersize me" & there was a particular segment where a Latino family was interviewed. One memory that has remaind with me is how non-chalantly they say, "America is a country where eating junk is far more affordable than eating healthy.." I presume it is not specific to US anymore, and lot of other countries have caught on similar trends. But it was eye opening then, that eating home food with fresh produce, fruits milk etc was out of the reach of working class who normally had to depend on burger & fast-food often (at least during workdays). Growing up in S Asia, eating out was luxury (even McDonald's) as compared to home food which probably costed a fraction of the happy meals / dollar meals or equivalent - and understandably healthier. I recommend watching that documentary on how American intensive cultivation along with proteins, steroids etc in their animal produce is harming the health. With purchasing power of lower & middle income group falling, they have to maximize their purchase by buying in bulk - usually from store chains, which source from run of the mill non-organic sources. Biomagnification of these steroids in human body becomes inevitable. Added to that, US loves it sugary drinks cheese & mayonnaise. Only a small percentage of population are genuinely conscious to keep a check on calories, food quality & regularly exercise - factors which can offset some of the adverse conditions available.
    - SoftTalker 4y ago
      It's nonsense though. A couple of hard boiled eggs and an apple is a lot cheaper than a fast food lunch and healthier.
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    > Indeed, but this is not so much about them not taking care of themselves, it's that your food is poison. I really don't think this is the case. A ton of people in my family (and friend of the family) sphere eat well. Home cooked, good vegetables, maybe too many carbs, quality meats. But far too many of them are overweight or obese. You know what they do wrong? They eat too much. I can't see it as anything other than a cultural misunderstanding of portion sizes and body weights learned over time. You notice it subtly in comments people make about how "small" some people look, or how "little" they eat. Yet, the person being commented on is probably 6' tall, 180lbs, and just ate a 1000 calorie dinner.
    - somewhereoutth 4y ago
      I home cooked the leanest beef mince I could find (ok from Safeways, but I think it may even have said 'Angus' on the packet). I had to keep pouring away the water? that kept drowning it as I fried. It's not about portion sizes, or at least if it is it is because something about the food is making people want more (higher salt and fat content most likely).
- uoaei 4y ago
  The "moral degradation" argument is a tired one with a long legacy of being used to justify absolutely inane policies. Truthfully, if medicine were preventative instead of merely reactive we wouldn't be having these kinds of health issues. Young people aren't taking care of themselves because they don't have access to the kinds of resources which will help them to do that -- namely, affordable, regular doctor's visits. If access to healthcare was as inexpensive as junk food and Netflix, a lot more people would be going to the doctor. Prices reflect the values a society encourages. If there is anyone to blame, it is not the individuals, but the make-up of the system itself in terms of what it encourages via economics.
  - jfabre 4y ago
    A gym membership is pretty affordable if you count the healthcare costs you're going to save down the road. Their fast-food industry is a massive problem. These parasites company do not have the health of their clients at hearth and they should be regulated like cigarettes are. Still, at the end of the day people choose what they eat.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    > Young people aren't taking care of themselves because they don't have access to the kinds of resources which will help them to do that -- namely, affordable, regular doctor's visits. You don't need to visit a doctor to know that if you're overweight, you need to eat less.
    - uoaei 4y ago
      You underestimate the power of external accountability and expert opinion in driving decision-making.
- fatherzine 4y ago
  Absent an ancestral tradition of healthy cooking, people gravitate towards the cheap convenient slop sold at every corner: rice + industrial produced meat, wrapped in 5643 different sauces that give them the illusion of a wide variety. Then there is the time pressure from long work hours. Then the lack of home-making relatives, heavily looked down by the culture. Then the snacks precisely designed to maximize pleasure, while minimizing cost and nutritional value. Then the never ending stream of advertisements for said poor quality food. Then the culture of "my neighbor is not my responsibility, s/he is free to go down the road of perdition.". Then the sedentarism of office work. The situation is dire. Some obvious tropes: * Turn off the TV, install an ad blocker, treat ads as personal affronts. * Buy only food with less than 3 ingredients on the label, ideally just one. * Cook for your family. * Weave in your schedule at least 2 hours of movement every day. Sadly, no way to make that work at scale.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > Absent an ancestral tradition of healthy cooking, people gravitate towards the cheap convenient slop sold at every corner: rice + industrial produced meat, wrapped in 5643 different sauces If you think rice is a significant part of a standard American diet...
zxcb1 4y ago
American culture; the parasitic form of capitalism sees humans as natural resources, to be consumed and turned into capital.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ErikCorry 4y ago
Interesting article. Would have been great to try to break down the factors to see how they each contribute percentually to the dire situation. Guns (suicides/accidents/crime), health care (opioids/diabetes/other), traffic.
- redmen 4y ago
labster 4y ago
American exceptionalism at work. But we’ll try to burn enough fossil fuels to help the rest of the world catch up.

43 points by laurex 4y ago

newaccount2021 4y ago

stop50 4y ago

I knew that the healthcare system in the us kills people, but i never thought that its that bad.

EddieDante 4y ago
Most Americans die of America itself.
- redmen 4y ago
  America metastasized

SoftTalker 4y ago

I do not think this is a matter of different approaches to health care, at least nod directly. Many young Americans are just not taking care of themselves. Every day I see 20, 30, 40-somethings who are grossly obese. Just this one factor is going to lead to worse outcomes and higher mortality for COVID as well as most other diseases and accidents across the board.

somewhereoutth 4y ago
- redmen 4y ago
- rhcom2 4y ago
  My grocery store has plenty of fresh produce, what's different about it compared to a EU veggie?
  - redmen 4y ago
    American produce is a problem but I think only 1 percent of people know how to cook their own food. Instead they buy from restaurants and then are bewildered when their bank accounts are empty and they are fat and with bad skin. Education in America is worse than growing up in the Bush.
    - rhcom2 4y ago
      > American produce is a problem Besides our insistence on having everything even if it is out of season, which isn't really a problem with the produce itself, what is America's produce problem?
      - redmen 4y ago
        Not sure what the problem is but you can experience symptoms. Bad farming practices, poor soil are some of my guesses. How expensive things are that are grown locally. Just because you cannot identify the problems doesn't mean they don't exist.
        redmen 4y ago
        I like how this gets down voted by saying the obvious thing. Everyone for some reason thinks if you can't create a formula then you are wrong. When did people become so incredibly un insightful?
  - trinovantes 4y ago
    There's lots of Americans especially those in poor/minority neighborhoods that don't have access to fresh produce. Look up "food deserts"
- bluejekyll 4y ago
  “All of America's problems I could have worked around, one way or another, but not the food.” What? I’m not sure what you are referring to. Yes, there are lots of options in the grocery store that are horrible for you, but you don’t need to buy it. There are plenty of farmers markets around, there is good produce in many (most?) markets. Personal choice is a huge factor in all of this. Time to prepare food is a problem for many overworked Americans, and I suspect this is the bigger issue. The choice for a quick and easy (bad for you) meal is enticing when you might be working multiple jobs.
  - orwin 4y ago
    Well mostly agree, but they are outliers. I've been at a place in West Virginia where the closest store was a small Piggly Wiggly, and it was still a 30 minute drive. You could go to the Farmer market in Hungtington, but it was a 1:30h drive at least (don't remember exactly where was the market, if it was downtown it might have been more). Luckily there was a lot of Shitake, lot of salads and cultivated vegetables directly at the house, but i will remember this store all my life.
  - somewhereoutth 4y ago
    You can't prepare all your food yourself from specialist suppliers, even if you could find such that were actually what they claimed to be, and how would you know? There is no food regulation as we understand it in the EU. Anyone can sell anything as anything, buyer beware!
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > Short of having food flown in from the EU, there is no way to avoid it, it is in your entire food chain, from top end restaurants to fast food. Even the Apple cafeteria with its hilarious ever novel meal names! Preface: I live in the EU (again) and worked in farm to table agrotourisms and even spent time in Michelin kitchens in both Europe and US and worked as a horticulture Farm manager on Biodynamc and Organic farms for the majority of my culinary career. There is no need to fly anything in from the EU, other fine things like charcuterie, cheese or wine, because their is enough organic and biodynamic produce to feed a great deal of the US population; the issue is that very few Americans value good food and are prepared to pay the higher costs for cleaner more nutrient dense food--so produce managers are less inclined to buy more than 'just enough.' Also, most in the US place greater value in quantity over quality and that is a quality that I really think holds things back the most. It's a dilemma that I understand as a millennial, wherein you are constantly asked to take more and more of your paycheck to offset ever-growing costs of living and food ends up becoming the last part of your discretionary budget due to high rents with a majority of wages that cannot keep up with inflation. Gen Z is woefully stuck in this space by default. Where I take issue is when those same people are buying new phones every year and leasing cars with high interest rate and ordering doordash after dropping $100+ at the bar and a uber ride home. It's a problem without an easy solution because you can see it from both sides and it's not clear how to go about it, personally I always spent most of my money on food, be it at the grocery store or restaurants, but that is because I come from a culture that values the things cuisine avails about most things in Life, so it's not a hard sale. Prior to COVID I really thought we were on the road to get food culture closer to European and Asian standards int he US, but sadly... most of that has been lost. What should be noted is that their is a reason a hegemonic Megacorp like Amazon has not only purchased Whole Foods, but also moved into the medical field with it's acquisition of One Medical and they understand having a presence in all tiers of the spectrum and have tons of data from millions of people's food purchases via prime. > All of America's problems I could have worked around, one way or another, but not the food. >> Everyday, and I do mean everyday, back in the 'poor' western European country I now live, I celebrate and feel thankful for the decent clean tasty healthy food abundant everywhere. Agreed, (to an extent), but I live in Eastern Europe and I have to settle for un-certified Bio farm products at the farmers markets and Bio stuff from Germany/Austria/Italy/Spain sold at the (mainly German) Super Markets. It's not inexpensive to eat this way, but it's worth it to me.
- srvmshr 4y ago
  A long time ago, I saw the documentary "Supersize me" & there was a particular segment where a Latino family was interviewed. One memory that has remaind with me is how non-chalantly they say, "America is a country where eating junk is far more affordable than eating healthy.." I presume it is not specific to US anymore, and lot of other countries have caught on similar trends. But it was eye opening then, that eating home food with fresh produce, fruits milk etc was out of the reach of working class who normally had to depend on burger & fast-food often (at least during workdays). Growing up in S Asia, eating out was luxury (even McDonald's) as compared to home food which probably costed a fraction of the happy meals / dollar meals or equivalent - and understandably healthier. I recommend watching that documentary on how American intensive cultivation along with proteins, steroids etc in their animal produce is harming the health. With purchasing power of lower & middle income group falling, they have to maximize their purchase by buying in bulk - usually from store chains, which source from run of the mill non-organic sources. Biomagnification of these steroids in human body becomes inevitable. Added to that, US loves it sugary drinks cheese & mayonnaise. Only a small percentage of population are genuinely conscious to keep a check on calories, food quality & regularly exercise - factors which can offset some of the adverse conditions available.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    It's nonsense though. A couple of hard boiled eggs and an apple is a lot cheaper than a fast food lunch and healthier.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  > Indeed, but this is not so much about them not taking care of themselves, it's that your food is poison. I really don't think this is the case. A ton of people in my family (and friend of the family) sphere eat well. Home cooked, good vegetables, maybe too many carbs, quality meats. But far too many of them are overweight or obese. You know what they do wrong? They eat too much. I can't see it as anything other than a cultural misunderstanding of portion sizes and body weights learned over time. You notice it subtly in comments people make about how "small" some people look, or how "little" they eat. Yet, the person being commented on is probably 6' tall, 180lbs, and just ate a 1000 calorie dinner.
  - somewhereoutth 4y ago
    I home cooked the leanest beef mince I could find (ok from Safeways, but I think it may even have said 'Angus' on the packet). I had to keep pouring away the water? that kept drowning it as I fried. It's not about portion sizes, or at least if it is it is because something about the food is making people want more (higher salt and fat content most likely).
uoaei 4y ago
The "moral degradation" argument is a tired one with a long legacy of being used to justify absolutely inane policies. Truthfully, if medicine were preventative instead of merely reactive we wouldn't be having these kinds of health issues. Young people aren't taking care of themselves because they don't have access to the kinds of resources which will help them to do that -- namely, affordable, regular doctor's visits. If access to healthcare was as inexpensive as junk food and Netflix, a lot more people would be going to the doctor. Prices reflect the values a society encourages. If there is anyone to blame, it is not the individuals, but the make-up of the system itself in terms of what it encourages via economics.
- jfabre 4y ago
  A gym membership is pretty affordable if you count the healthcare costs you're going to save down the road. Their fast-food industry is a massive problem. These parasites company do not have the health of their clients at hearth and they should be regulated like cigarettes are. Still, at the end of the day people choose what they eat.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > Young people aren't taking care of themselves because they don't have access to the kinds of resources which will help them to do that -- namely, affordable, regular doctor's visits. You don't need to visit a doctor to know that if you're overweight, you need to eat less.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    You underestimate the power of external accountability and expert opinion in driving decision-making.
fatherzine 4y ago
Absent an ancestral tradition of healthy cooking, people gravitate towards the cheap convenient slop sold at every corner: rice + industrial produced meat, wrapped in 5643 different sauces that give them the illusion of a wide variety. Then there is the time pressure from long work hours. Then the lack of home-making relatives, heavily looked down by the culture. Then the snacks precisely designed to maximize pleasure, while minimizing cost and nutritional value. Then the never ending stream of advertisements for said poor quality food. Then the culture of "my neighbor is not my responsibility, s/he is free to go down the road of perdition.". Then the sedentarism of office work. The situation is dire. Some obvious tropes: * Turn off the TV, install an ad blocker, treat ads as personal affronts. * Buy only food with less than 3 ingredients on the label, ideally just one. * Cook for your family. * Weave in your schedule at least 2 hours of movement every day. Sadly, no way to make that work at scale.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > Absent an ancestral tradition of healthy cooking, people gravitate towards the cheap convenient slop sold at every corner: rice + industrial produced meat, wrapped in 5643 different sauces If you think rice is a significant part of a standard American diet...

zxcb1 4y ago

American culture; the parasitic form of capitalism sees humans as natural resources, to be consumed and turned into capital.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

ErikCorry 4y ago

Interesting article. Would have been great to try to break down the factors to see how they each contribute percentually to the dire situation. Guns (suicides/accidents/crime), health care (opioids/diabetes/other), traffic.

redmen 4y ago

labster 4y ago

American exceptionalism at work. But we’ll try to burn enough fossil fuels to help the rest of the world catch up.