7 ms·

With the assumption that there are smart people involved who thought this was a good idea -- The article really doesn't go into detail what's new here. Looks

With the assumption that there are smart people involved who thought this was a good idea -- The article really doesn't go into detail what's new here. Looks like it's trying to be graffiti-proof, perhaps other ways to be easy to maintain. Lots of things like this aren't always obvious. If you said it's $10-20k for a trash can (well, they did), that sounds silly, but there should be a reason these are being considered.

syspec 4y ago
I don't know if I'd call it graffiti proof. It looks more as if, when graffiti gets onto the fins it will be impossible to remove.
- jshzglr 4y ago
  Looks like an opportunity for some abstract graffiti that looks different depending on your angle. This is stupid. The people of San Fran should be reimbursed the million dollars this cost. By who, I don't know.
- anonAndOn 4y ago
  The fins are actually kind of brilliant. Looks like it will hamper both paint markers and knife scratchers. The spray painters will just have to be painted over, though. Two out of three ain't bad!
- floxy 4y ago
  OT, but has anyone ever studied what motivates graffiti producers? I assume it is a mix of teenage boredom / rebelliousness and gang territory signifiers, but I would be interested in reading more about it. I'm more interested learning about the motivation for the "scribbles" form, rather than the more artist versions.
sometimesjerks 4y ago
I think this is a really interesting topic because there's a surprising amount of consideration that needs to go into something like this. Most people think "oh, a trashcan, how hard can it be to design one?". Here's a list of the requirements of these trashcans, mostly taken from here (https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-trash-cans-17309914.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-trash-c...): - Durable: they can't be easily damaged due to physical force, rain, UV exposure, or even fire (if someone throws out a lit cigarette). These cans are expected to last 15-20 years - They also shouldn't be easy to tip over - They must be difficult for people and animals to get into - They must be easy for public works to empty. The inner can can't be too heavy or not robust enough to contain the trash (32 gallons) - The opening can't be too big to prevent people dumping large items into it - These cans will also indicate when they're full via optical sensor (https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/02/27/san-franciscos-trash-bins-get-smart/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/02/27/san-franciscos-trash-...) - They should look somewhat appealing (they're designed in Oakland). - They must meet certain size restrictions due to the various widths of sidewalks in SF - It must also have a recycling container on top that meets most of the above requirements of "people can't reach inside here" In terms of "why are they so expensive": these cans are one-off prototypes. When they're mass produced, they will only be a bit more than the existing green cans ($1,218 vs $2,000) but with the goal of being much more durable and robust. Additionally, they're much less expensive than the "Bigbelly" cans that the city supervisors wanted to use. Fun fact: the city doesn't actually own those cans and they cost $3,000 per year to lease (!!!).
- atwood22 4y ago
  I think this list of requirements ignores the fact that plenty of other cities have trash cans that fulfill their purpose.
  - sometimesjerks 4y ago
    Other cities have functional trash cans, but every city is unique and the set of problems they solve will be different. In SF the biggest issue is that people are constantly getting into the trash and creating a huge mess, so the cans that NYC or Seattle use won't work because they have an open top design. Many of the cans in London are the BigBelly or bomb-proof variety, but we already ruled that out because of the $3k per year lease fee. From what I can tell most cities don't have a custom design: they just use whatever commercially available thing is available. SF is hoping this design will be better than those, and that they will be able to sell the design to other cities. I'd love to see how other cities address this issue though... I know that Amsterdam has a fancy underground trash system!
    - atwood22 4y ago
      Most places try to use the law to discourage anti-social behavior.
- Someone 4y ago
  https://missionlocal.org/2021/09/san-francisco-garbage-can-designer/ https://missionlocal.org/2021/09/san-francisco-garbage-can-d... mentions a similar list: Rubenstein from Public Works explained that in 2018, the department could not find a trash can that fulfilled an exacting list of features: a rolling inside can for easy emptying, a sensor to alert workers when a can is full, durability to withstand street life, and be tamper-proof. And “obviously,” she added, “they needed to be aesthetic.” It also hints at fraud, but I’m not sure that plays a big role in the eventual costs of these trash cans. As you mention, those “Bigbelly” cans aren’t cheaper ($3,900 a piece, according to that link, so about what these will end up costing)
- rahimnathwani 4y ago

syspec 4y ago

I don't know if I'd call it graffiti proof. It looks more as if, when graffiti gets onto the fins it will be impossible to remove.

jshzglr 4y ago
Looks like an opportunity for some abstract graffiti that looks different depending on your angle. This is stupid. The people of San Fran should be reimbursed the million dollars this cost. By who, I don't know.
anonAndOn 4y ago
The fins are actually kind of brilliant. Looks like it will hamper both paint markers and knife scratchers. The spray painters will just have to be painted over, though. Two out of three ain't bad!
floxy 4y ago
OT, but has anyone ever studied what motivates graffiti producers? I assume it is a mix of teenage boredom / rebelliousness and gang territory signifiers, but I would be interested in reading more about it. I'm more interested learning about the motivation for the "scribbles" form, rather than the more artist versions.

sometimesjerks 4y ago

I think this is a really interesting topic because there's a surprising amount of consideration that needs to go into something like this. Most people think "oh, a trashcan, how hard can it be to design one?". Here's a list of the requirements of these trashcans, mostly taken from here (https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-trash-cans-17309914.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/san-francisco-trash-c...): - Durable: they can't be easily damaged due to physical force, rain, UV exposure, or even fire (if someone throws out a lit cigarette). These cans are expected to last 15-20 years - They also shouldn't be easy to tip over - They must be difficult for people and animals to get into - They must be easy for public works to empty. The inner can can't be too heavy or not robust enough to contain the trash (32 gallons) - The opening can't be too big to prevent people dumping large items into it - These cans will also indicate when they're full via optical sensor (https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/02/27/san-franciscos-trash-bins-get-smart/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/02/27/san-franciscos-trash-...) - They should look somewhat appealing (they're designed in Oakland). - They must meet certain size restrictions due to the various widths of sidewalks in SF - It must also have a recycling container on top that meets most of the above requirements of "people can't reach inside here" In terms of "why are they so expensive": these cans are one-off prototypes. When they're mass produced, they will only be a bit more than the existing green cans ($1,218 vs $2,000) but with the goal of being much more durable and robust. Additionally, they're much less expensive than the "Bigbelly" cans that the city supervisors wanted to use. Fun fact: the city doesn't actually own those cans and they cost $3,000 per year to lease (!!!).

atwood22 4y ago
I think this list of requirements ignores the fact that plenty of other cities have trash cans that fulfill their purpose.
- sometimesjerks 4y ago
  Other cities have functional trash cans, but every city is unique and the set of problems they solve will be different. In SF the biggest issue is that people are constantly getting into the trash and creating a huge mess, so the cans that NYC or Seattle use won't work because they have an open top design. Many of the cans in London are the BigBelly or bomb-proof variety, but we already ruled that out because of the $3k per year lease fee. From what I can tell most cities don't have a custom design: they just use whatever commercially available thing is available. SF is hoping this design will be better than those, and that they will be able to sell the design to other cities. I'd love to see how other cities address this issue though... I know that Amsterdam has a fancy underground trash system!
  - atwood22 4y ago
    Most places try to use the law to discourage anti-social behavior.
Someone 4y ago
https://missionlocal.org/2021/09/san-francisco-garbage-can-designer/ https://missionlocal.org/2021/09/san-francisco-garbage-can-d... mentions a similar list: Rubenstein from Public Works explained that in 2018, the department could not find a trash can that fulfilled an exacting list of features: a rolling inside can for easy emptying, a sensor to alert workers when a can is full, durability to withstand street life, and be tamper-proof. And “obviously,” she added, “they needed to be aesthetic.” It also hints at fraud, but I’m not sure that plays a big role in the eventual costs of these trash cans. As you mention, those “Bigbelly” cans aren’t cheaper ($3,900 a piece, according to that link, so about what these will end up costing)
rahimnathwani 4y ago