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> What keeps fit people going to the gym on a regular basis isn't wearing their running shoes to bed at night. It's discipline and accountability. There is an

by tomxor 4y ago

> What keeps fit people going to the gym on a regular basis isn't wearing their running shoes to bed at night. It's discipline and accountability. There is an alternative, less resistant path which I believe is more sustainable and better for the soul... find something you love that involves exercise, not much discipline is needed once you do, because you probably wont be able to stop yourself from doing it when it's something you look forward to - which in a way is "wearing your running shoes to bed", it's passion. Something which is not exercise for the sake of exercise, i.e not "going to the gym", it must be more mentally rewarding and stimulating somehow. That doesn't mean team sports either, there is more to life, in fact I'd recommend avoiding team sports because then you are more likely to have more control over when and where you can do your activity. Examples: rock climbing, mountain biking, sailing, surfing, skating, skiing. You can do these types of activities with friends, and make friends too, and they can take you all over the world, or at least all over your country - so they are pretty good for the soul ;) Discipline is a useful ability, but you can only apply it effectively so many places in your life, and you wont be able to keep it up forever. Save it for when you really need it to fix something - but health is not a fix, it's a lifestyle.

pjc50 4y ago
> then you are more likely to have more control over when and where you can do your activity. For me (also an unsporting nerd who came to exercise in midlife), having less control is actually a benefit: because I've got a booked timeslot with my PT, I have to go or it's embarrasing as well as a sunk cost. If I give myself control over when I go it's too easy for it to be mañana. Pre commitment is a real thing.
- tomxor 4y ago
  I would suggest that perhaps you have not found the thing you love to do yet? You could always dump your PT for a few weeks and spend the money on booking some taster activities to try to find something... the initial booking still forces an initial commitment to get you to try ;) even if you don't find something on the first round it's a good experience to try out different things and meet new people... I still do this occasionally even though I have a couple activities i'm pretty addicted to, one i've been doing for over 2 decades.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
exabrial 4y ago
For me that’s mountain biking. But I look like a Greek statue on the bottom and a bit of a melting ice cream cone on top.
- tomxor 4y ago
  :D thanks for the illustrative insight. I don't have much experience with that one, but can recommend rock climbing, which I've been doing for most of my life, it exercises pretty much everything. As something that demands good power to weight ratio you tend to drop the useless stuff.
  - kritiko 4y ago
    Don't get me wrong, climbing can help you build muscle that's very aesthetic - arms, core, shoulders - but the "useless stuff" that people drop is what's useless for climbing, not other sports. The conventional training wisdom (I learned about it from the Anderson Bros in RCTM, but others advocate it too) is to avoid carrying too much weight on your glutes/quads etc. I.e. skip leg day. So that's probably in conflict with also trying to maximize MTB performance.
    - tomxor 4y ago
      I was referring to fat, and when it comes to power to weight ratio it's utterly useless. However it's true there is a bias towards upper body in climbing, but probably not as much of a bias that some other sports put on the body like cycling or running. You don't really grow big muscles, relatively speaking, climbing makes you lean and works out your entire body, after a certain point larger muscles actually become a burden... though strong feet and calf muscles are vital to be able to stick around on tiny feet holds and execute high tension manoeuvrers. I would agree that doing a lot of cycling/mtb would probably have a slight negative affect on your climbing ability, i'm not sure about the reverse though - what most people don't realise is that climbing is a very technical sport, and you are totally using your legs most of the time, in fact one of the most obvious identifying behaviours in novices is people hauling themselves up walls using their arms and getting tired really quickly - it's not constant cut loose campusing, those are only the most extreme moves, the crux of a hard climb or a boulder problem.
dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago
I did this with biking years ago and I don't regret any second of it. It relaxes me in the morning, it does the same in the evening. During warm months it's all pleasure, during colder months it's mostly the way to work and back (or an equivalent in the opposite direction when I WFH). The only drawback is that although the muscles in the lower part of the body seem like made of steel, the upper part is definitely weaker, so a while ago I started to do pushups as a kind of game: can I ever do 100 pushups in one go? The first step was to make 50 pushups daily and to gradually increase it. I can now do ca. 20 pushups and I'm very proud of it (I could barely do 7 at the beginning).
- tomxor 4y ago
  I also do pushups to balance out climbing, because although climbing works all the muscles fairly well, it over develops the back slightly. Even though I'm pretty anti-gym, i think body weight exercises are great, because you can pretty much do them anywhere at any time and they tend to target a broader range of muscles unlike gym exercises. The one thing I learned about push-ups recently is how we have a tendency to get tripped up by the measurement fallacy... i mean how else do you measure it other than how many right? The thing is that if you optimise for quantity you will actually end up with bad form and be cheating by using momentum. If you goal is to actually improve your body somehow then you start focusing on form and control, which can be a little bit demoralizing at first because you will no doubt be back squarely in the <10 range, but you will have abs of steel if you keep it up :P
- huijzer 4y ago
  Sounds like great progress. Friendly reminder to also train the back side of your body too. Otherwise, the office work and the pull ups will pull your shoulders forward which can cause problems in the long-run. Given that you got so far with the push ups, I’m sure you can also find a way to do some back work
k__ 4y ago
I did it that way. I was a couch potato until 30 or so. Then I stopped using public transport and biked everywhere. I lived on a hill, so every time I got back I had to get back up again. After a few years, I added swimming, because it cools you in the summer. Full body excercise and you don't even notice the sweat. Later, I added lifting. Got me a home gym and went 2-3 times a week. Not having to leave the house for a dedicated workout really helped.
noneeeed 4y ago
Couldn't agree more. I know a number of older/retired people who are in good health into their 70s and 80s. None of them "do exercise" in the sense of going to the gym, but all of them do sports/activity of some form and keep moving. They all walk places rather than taking the car (they have the time) and they do things like biking long distances with friends or playing tennis or badminton. If you're like one I know (84) you walk two miles each way to play badminton with your friends. Sure there are health benefits, but they all do these things because of the intrinsic enjoyment and satisfaction. Once my health is good enough to start running again I'll get back to running 20-30km a week, not for the health benefits, but because I get enjoyment from running in the countyside with a podcast on. I run because I love running. I walk a lot because I love to walk and more. I want to be fit so I can run and walk, rather than the other way round, and I think that's the best long-term way to stay fit an healthy.
whatsupdock96 4y ago
Totally agree. Motivation is fickle so it really cannot be relied on. There are many ways to be active. Even if you do want to "go to the gym" there are ways to make it easier - so you need less motivation - and more enjoyable so it is a positive experience. That being said, a trainer can help get you to a specific goal extremely well, and help you kick start the "get to a point of liking it" stage.
pydry 4y ago
>Examples: rock climbing, mountain biking, sailing, surfing, skating, skiing. Doing those every day sounds both expensive and an organizational nightmare. I love skiing and i do it every few years but I cant rely upon it for exercise. I tried badminton / frisbee in the park but that still needs geographically close, willing partners who are willing to exert themselves with matching schedules and good weather. In the end i solved the motivation/availability problem by being 25 seconds away from a reliable heavy HIIT cardio + anerobic workout - having a rowing machine at home. It's overall less fun than skiing perhaps but the barrier to entry being negligible makes all the difference.
- kritiko 4y ago
  A lot of these are lifestyle sports that come with the benefit of a built in community. Sailing - boat club Climbing - gym Surfing - the other folks at the spot Skiing - lift/lodge people (also if you really care about skiing all the time you probably move to SLC or somewhere that can accommodate that) Once you have that community, the "willing partners" part kind of solves itself.
  - pydry 4y ago
    Right. Still left with weather, cost, locational dependency and organizational issues though. Anyway, "just move to SLC and ski" is clearly A solution to the problem of "i cant motivate myself to exercise" but it's a fairly drastic one.
    - kritiko 4y ago
      It's the "love your job and you'll never work a day in your life" theory of exercise. For me, I struggle to stick to training without a trainer, but I'll happily climb or ski or hike for hours because they are "peak experiences" - pun intended. If folks are reading this and thinking about how to reduce friction to start exercising - putting all the equipment in your house is one approach. (I made it work in the pandemic, although downstairs neighbors can limit what you can do....) But the pull of finding something that puts you into flow state or has a social accountability component like Crossfit can be worth the "issues."
nonameiguess 4y ago
This can be quite difficult to sustain over the long run for a variety of reasons. First, these kinds of hobbies are quite time-consuming. Going mountain biking or outdoor rock climbing is likely to consume an entire weekend at least every time you do it. It's difficult to just do an hour a day every day. Second, you need consistent access to the places where it can be done. Live in Los Angeles? Great, you can surf, ski, climb Joshua Tree, thru-hike the Pacific Crest trail, mountain bike in the San Gabriels, all within an hour's drive. Live in Kansas City, now what? There's also long term wear and tear. I've been a very historically active person and did a lot of these things. Outdoor rock climbing, open water swimming, bicycling, thru hiking, summitting <18,000 ft mountains in one day. But I'm really not sure which of those things I can still do. I've got ten screws in my spine now. Carrying around a pack and getting stuck on a mountain is not good. Bicycling really hurts. I developed some kind of elbow bursitis that won't go away no matter what and 20 minutes on a rock wall and my arm is absolutely throbbing now, for days. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do to stop it. Lifting, on the other hand, gives you near infinite options to isolate single joints in arbitrary planes of motion, in a controlled and micro-loadable manner, which makes it possible to work pretty much anything safely and work around just about any injury. I'd like to still do open-water swimming, which I don't think would hurt me, but I no longer live near any swimmable bodies of water. But I still have a garage and can put weights in it.
- tomxor 4y ago
  I've been managing to sustain climbing for over 20 years, i can fit a couple hours in at an indoor climbing wall in the winter, or go to various locations outdoors, local and far, depending on available time... yes sometimes I do weekend trips, sometimes week trips, but when you love it, you are happy to spend more time doing it because it's fun, you don't consider it time lost, you consider it time well spent and return home refreshed, satisfied, not merely "exercised". It's true not each possible activity is going to be convenient or practical to everyone, but there will be enough that intersect your life circumstances that you can find something... but I feel on average, most people here are going to benefit from trying something a bit more adventurous and getting out into nature, if only for the life experience. Weights is very convenient but doesn't give you any of that. > There's also long term wear and tear. I've been a very historically active person and did a lot of these things. Outdoor rock climbing, open water swimming, bicycling, thru hiking, summitting <18,000 ft mountains in one day. But I'm really not sure which of those things I can still do. This is a real concern, once you become passionate about such a sport it's quite easy to over do it (and I have), but I'd argue climbing is one of many viable long term sports provided you take care of yourself. There are lots of "silver crimpers" in the climbing world which shows it can be done. Injury prevention in these more niche activities is also an emerging area, for climbing specifically i'd check out Dave McLeod excellent books... but this is only relevant when you are really pushing the activity, a lot of fun and good exercise can be had without risking injury from just rambling up some easy routes... That's what I aspire to in old age, to continue moving and having fun in new places. I think this probably transfers to most other actives too, so long as you find them intrinsically fun, you should be able to continue to do them without pushing yourself to the limit 100% of the time.
okamiueru 4y ago
I'd throw in a suggestion of: dancing. You'd be surprised how many introverted people do social dancing. And the bar is usually very low. So, not being a long time dancer, musically gifted, etc, is seldom a problem.
- potatochup 4y ago
  As someone who is pretty involved in social dance communities, I agree. The bar is pretty much: don't be a creep, don't injure anyone. Then if you're at least a little bit friendly you'll be welcomed. The only downside (for some) is that scheduling can be inflexible, and it's usually an evening activity so not great for early birds.
AnonC 4y ago
> There is an alternative, less resistant path which I believe is more sustainable and better for the soul... find something you love that involves exercise, not much discipline is needed once you do, because you probably wont be able to stop yourself from doing it when it's something you look forward to - which in a way is "wearing your running shoes to bed", it's passion. Unfortunately, I don’t like going out and I don’t have any outdoor activities or sports I like. So the only thing I’ve got is ensuring I do some workout at home and keep the rings on my smartwatch closed. This is also a bit easier to find motivation for when you find external/other situations/experiences scary on the health side. > Examples: rock climbing, mountain biking, sailing, surfing, skating, skiing. I’d have to travel considerably far to even try any of these. :(
- tomxor 4y ago
  If you are city bound without access to travel i'm sure there are more suitable activities. Someone else mentioned dancing. Also pretty sure you can do skating in a city.
nunez 4y ago
much MUCH easier said than done, but i generally agree

by tomxor 4y ago

pjc50 4y ago

> then you are more likely to have more control over when and where you can do your activity. For me (also an unsporting nerd who came to exercise in midlife), having less control is actually a benefit: because I've got a booked timeslot with my PT, I have to go or it's embarrasing as well as a sunk cost. If I give myself control over when I go it's too easy for it to be mañana. Pre commitment is a real thing.

tomxor 4y ago
I would suggest that perhaps you have not found the thing you love to do yet? You could always dump your PT for a few weeks and spend the money on booking some taster activities to try to find something... the initial booking still forces an initial commitment to get you to try ;) even if you don't find something on the first round it's a good experience to try out different things and meet new people... I still do this occasionally even though I have a couple activities i'm pretty addicted to, one i've been doing for over 2 decades.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

exabrial 4y ago

For me that’s mountain biking. But I look like a Greek statue on the bottom and a bit of a melting ice cream cone on top.

tomxor 4y ago
:D thanks for the illustrative insight. I don't have much experience with that one, but can recommend rock climbing, which I've been doing for most of my life, it exercises pretty much everything. As something that demands good power to weight ratio you tend to drop the useless stuff.
- kritiko 4y ago
  Don't get me wrong, climbing can help you build muscle that's very aesthetic - arms, core, shoulders - but the "useless stuff" that people drop is what's useless for climbing, not other sports. The conventional training wisdom (I learned about it from the Anderson Bros in RCTM, but others advocate it too) is to avoid carrying too much weight on your glutes/quads etc. I.e. skip leg day. So that's probably in conflict with also trying to maximize MTB performance.
  - tomxor 4y ago
    I was referring to fat, and when it comes to power to weight ratio it's utterly useless. However it's true there is a bias towards upper body in climbing, but probably not as much of a bias that some other sports put on the body like cycling or running. You don't really grow big muscles, relatively speaking, climbing makes you lean and works out your entire body, after a certain point larger muscles actually become a burden... though strong feet and calf muscles are vital to be able to stick around on tiny feet holds and execute high tension manoeuvrers. I would agree that doing a lot of cycling/mtb would probably have a slight negative affect on your climbing ability, i'm not sure about the reverse though - what most people don't realise is that climbing is a very technical sport, and you are totally using your legs most of the time, in fact one of the most obvious identifying behaviours in novices is people hauling themselves up walls using their arms and getting tired really quickly - it's not constant cut loose campusing, those are only the most extreme moves, the crux of a hard climb or a boulder problem.

dvfjsdhgfv 4y ago

I did this with biking years ago and I don't regret any second of it. It relaxes me in the morning, it does the same in the evening. During warm months it's all pleasure, during colder months it's mostly the way to work and back (or an equivalent in the opposite direction when I WFH). The only drawback is that although the muscles in the lower part of the body seem like made of steel, the upper part is definitely weaker, so a while ago I started to do pushups as a kind of game: can I ever do 100 pushups in one go? The first step was to make 50 pushups daily and to gradually increase it. I can now do ca. 20 pushups and I'm very proud of it (I could barely do 7 at the beginning).

tomxor 4y ago
I also do pushups to balance out climbing, because although climbing works all the muscles fairly well, it over develops the back slightly. Even though I'm pretty anti-gym, i think body weight exercises are great, because you can pretty much do them anywhere at any time and they tend to target a broader range of muscles unlike gym exercises. The one thing I learned about push-ups recently is how we have a tendency to get tripped up by the measurement fallacy... i mean how else do you measure it other than how many right? The thing is that if you optimise for quantity you will actually end up with bad form and be cheating by using momentum. If you goal is to actually improve your body somehow then you start focusing on form and control, which can be a little bit demoralizing at first because you will no doubt be back squarely in the <10 range, but you will have abs of steel if you keep it up :P
huijzer 4y ago
Sounds like great progress. Friendly reminder to also train the back side of your body too. Otherwise, the office work and the pull ups will pull your shoulders forward which can cause problems in the long-run. Given that you got so far with the push ups, I’m sure you can also find a way to do some back work

k__ 4y ago

I did it that way. I was a couch potato until 30 or so. Then I stopped using public transport and biked everywhere. I lived on a hill, so every time I got back I had to get back up again. After a few years, I added swimming, because it cools you in the summer. Full body excercise and you don't even notice the sweat. Later, I added lifting. Got me a home gym and went 2-3 times a week. Not having to leave the house for a dedicated workout really helped.

noneeeed 4y ago

Couldn't agree more. I know a number of older/retired people who are in good health into their 70s and 80s. None of them "do exercise" in the sense of going to the gym, but all of them do sports/activity of some form and keep moving. They all walk places rather than taking the car (they have the time) and they do things like biking long distances with friends or playing tennis or badminton. If you're like one I know (84) you walk two miles each way to play badminton with your friends. Sure there are health benefits, but they all do these things because of the intrinsic enjoyment and satisfaction. Once my health is good enough to start running again I'll get back to running 20-30km a week, not for the health benefits, but because I get enjoyment from running in the countyside with a podcast on. I run because I love running. I walk a lot because I love to walk and more. I want to be fit so I can run and walk, rather than the other way round, and I think that's the best long-term way to stay fit an healthy.

whatsupdock96 4y ago

Totally agree. Motivation is fickle so it really cannot be relied on. There are many ways to be active. Even if you do want to "go to the gym" there are ways to make it easier - so you need less motivation - and more enjoyable so it is a positive experience. That being said, a trainer can help get you to a specific goal extremely well, and help you kick start the "get to a point of liking it" stage.

pydry 4y ago

>Examples: rock climbing, mountain biking, sailing, surfing, skating, skiing. Doing those every day sounds both expensive and an organizational nightmare. I love skiing and i do it every few years but I cant rely upon it for exercise. I tried badminton / frisbee in the park but that still needs geographically close, willing partners who are willing to exert themselves with matching schedules and good weather. In the end i solved the motivation/availability problem by being 25 seconds away from a reliable heavy HIIT cardio + anerobic workout - having a rowing machine at home. It's overall less fun than skiing perhaps but the barrier to entry being negligible makes all the difference.

kritiko 4y ago
A lot of these are lifestyle sports that come with the benefit of a built in community. Sailing - boat club Climbing - gym Surfing - the other folks at the spot Skiing - lift/lodge people (also if you really care about skiing all the time you probably move to SLC or somewhere that can accommodate that) Once you have that community, the "willing partners" part kind of solves itself.
- pydry 4y ago
  Right. Still left with weather, cost, locational dependency and organizational issues though. Anyway, "just move to SLC and ski" is clearly A solution to the problem of "i cant motivate myself to exercise" but it's a fairly drastic one.
  - kritiko 4y ago
    It's the "love your job and you'll never work a day in your life" theory of exercise. For me, I struggle to stick to training without a trainer, but I'll happily climb or ski or hike for hours because they are "peak experiences" - pun intended. If folks are reading this and thinking about how to reduce friction to start exercising - putting all the equipment in your house is one approach. (I made it work in the pandemic, although downstairs neighbors can limit what you can do....) But the pull of finding something that puts you into flow state or has a social accountability component like Crossfit can be worth the "issues."

nonameiguess 4y ago

This can be quite difficult to sustain over the long run for a variety of reasons. First, these kinds of hobbies are quite time-consuming. Going mountain biking or outdoor rock climbing is likely to consume an entire weekend at least every time you do it. It's difficult to just do an hour a day every day. Second, you need consistent access to the places where it can be done. Live in Los Angeles? Great, you can surf, ski, climb Joshua Tree, thru-hike the Pacific Crest trail, mountain bike in the San Gabriels, all within an hour's drive. Live in Kansas City, now what? There's also long term wear and tear. I've been a very historically active person and did a lot of these things. Outdoor rock climbing, open water swimming, bicycling, thru hiking, summitting <18,000 ft mountains in one day. But I'm really not sure which of those things I can still do. I've got ten screws in my spine now. Carrying around a pack and getting stuck on a mountain is not good. Bicycling really hurts. I developed some kind of elbow bursitis that won't go away no matter what and 20 minutes on a rock wall and my arm is absolutely throbbing now, for days. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do to stop it. Lifting, on the other hand, gives you near infinite options to isolate single joints in arbitrary planes of motion, in a controlled and micro-loadable manner, which makes it possible to work pretty much anything safely and work around just about any injury. I'd like to still do open-water swimming, which I don't think would hurt me, but I no longer live near any swimmable bodies of water. But I still have a garage and can put weights in it.

tomxor 4y ago
I've been managing to sustain climbing for over 20 years, i can fit a couple hours in at an indoor climbing wall in the winter, or go to various locations outdoors, local and far, depending on available time... yes sometimes I do weekend trips, sometimes week trips, but when you love it, you are happy to spend more time doing it because it's fun, you don't consider it time lost, you consider it time well spent and return home refreshed, satisfied, not merely "exercised". It's true not each possible activity is going to be convenient or practical to everyone, but there will be enough that intersect your life circumstances that you can find something... but I feel on average, most people here are going to benefit from trying something a bit more adventurous and getting out into nature, if only for the life experience. Weights is very convenient but doesn't give you any of that. > There's also long term wear and tear. I've been a very historically active person and did a lot of these things. Outdoor rock climbing, open water swimming, bicycling, thru hiking, summitting <18,000 ft mountains in one day. But I'm really not sure which of those things I can still do. This is a real concern, once you become passionate about such a sport it's quite easy to over do it (and I have), but I'd argue climbing is one of many viable long term sports provided you take care of yourself. There are lots of "silver crimpers" in the climbing world which shows it can be done. Injury prevention in these more niche activities is also an emerging area, for climbing specifically i'd check out Dave McLeod excellent books... but this is only relevant when you are really pushing the activity, a lot of fun and good exercise can be had without risking injury from just rambling up some easy routes... That's what I aspire to in old age, to continue moving and having fun in new places. I think this probably transfers to most other actives too, so long as you find them intrinsically fun, you should be able to continue to do them without pushing yourself to the limit 100% of the time.

okamiueru 4y ago

I'd throw in a suggestion of: dancing. You'd be surprised how many introverted people do social dancing. And the bar is usually very low. So, not being a long time dancer, musically gifted, etc, is seldom a problem.

potatochup 4y ago
As someone who is pretty involved in social dance communities, I agree. The bar is pretty much: don't be a creep, don't injure anyone. Then if you're at least a little bit friendly you'll be welcomed. The only downside (for some) is that scheduling can be inflexible, and it's usually an evening activity so not great for early birds.

AnonC 4y ago

> There is an alternative, less resistant path which I believe is more sustainable and better for the soul... find something you love that involves exercise, not much discipline is needed once you do, because you probably wont be able to stop yourself from doing it when it's something you look forward to - which in a way is "wearing your running shoes to bed", it's passion. Unfortunately, I don’t like going out and I don’t have any outdoor activities or sports I like. So the only thing I’ve got is ensuring I do some workout at home and keep the rings on my smartwatch closed. This is also a bit easier to find motivation for when you find external/other situations/experiences scary on the health side. > Examples: rock climbing, mountain biking, sailing, surfing, skating, skiing. I’d have to travel considerably far to even try any of these. :(

tomxor 4y ago
If you are city bound without access to travel i'm sure there are more suitable activities. Someone else mentioned dancing. Also pretty sure you can do skating in a city.

nunez 4y ago

much MUCH easier said than done, but i generally agree