11 ms·

The Importance of Elders

82 points by NickRandom 4y ago

kardianos 4y ago
Social obligation is missing in many today. Where there is a lack of obligation, entitlement will thrive. Do not be so sure of yourself in the face of your grandparent's wisdom.
dfbsdfbwe2ef2e 4y ago
On the other hand, Elders voted the UK out of the EU.
- markb139 4y ago
  Not all of us did
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- 59125throwaya 4y ago
  Trial by combat may have had its place in the leadership transition process
- bluepizza 4y ago
  They showed up for their civic rights. The youth did not. If the youth had listened to them, they would have voted, and that vote would have turned out different.
  - madsbuch 4y ago
    Unfortunately, this does not matter when generation sizes differ. The older generations are by far larger. There are good resources on how this has shaped society. Example are less support for education support and better policies for investments. Ie. Large generations decide how the world looks for small generations.
    - bluepizza 4y ago
      Leave won with 51.9% of the votes, on a voter turnout of 72.2%. It was not the irreversible situation you are making it to be.
  - anothernewdude 4y ago
    Whole point of the article was that we have elders because they look out for the youth. If they don't then they are useless, and can just die already.
    - throw__away7391 4y ago
      But, they aren't. The boomers I think are the first generation in historical memory to act this way. Everything is about them, it's always been about them. Look at Social Security funding/timing, look at the ages of our politicians. Look at the response to COVID (and for reference compare it to the response to AIDs). Literally every single thing they've gotten their hands on from infrastructure to politics to the economy and housing to the environment has been transformed into some kind of Ponzi scheme. I'm in my 40s now, but I still feel in some ways like a kid living in a world run by and for boomers. Politically, economically, culturally I definitely have more in common with a gen-z than boomers.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > The boomers I think are the first generation in historical memory to act this way No, they aren't. > Everything is about them, it's always been about them No, it isn't. > Look at Social Security funding/timing, You mean the way that, as Boomers were in early-mid career, the Silent Generation-dominated political class vastly increased taxes on workers for social security while also for the first time adopting taxes on social security benefits for the first time? > Look at the response to COVID (and for reference compare it to the response to AIDs). They are remarkably similar at the federal level, actually. In both cases, Republican Administrations deliberately didn't take it seriously for political reasons until media coverage of deaths and other political pressure from below resulted in a partial reversal. Everything about COVID happened faster, but the faster policy shift was mostly a result of it being a faster spreading, more acutely impactful pandemic, killing about as many people in its first year in the US as AIDS has in the US in total to date. EDIT TO ADD: > I'm in my 40s now, but I still feel in some ways like a kid living in a world run by and for boomers. This is relatively normal. Boomers in their own 40s experienced the same thing with regard to Silents. The big difference is because Gen X is a so much of bust generation compared to both Boomers and Millennials, they never became or will become dominant, and because not only are Millenials more liberal than Boomers but Gen X is more conservative than both, Gen X’s influence is basically to slightly extend and reinforce the feeling of Boomer domination for Millenials.
  - cumshitpiss 4y ago
    It's incredibly unfair to blame Brexit on youth voter turn out... It was incredibly stupid to pose that question as a simple majority leave/stay referendum, and then equally stupid to actually go through with it given such a narrow majority. Certain capital owners were the ones who advocated for it, and ultimately the ones who benefited, and they manipulated the older and xenophobic.
    - tartoran 4y ago
      I wonder what percentage of those elders acknowledge they have been manipulated but I suspect that number to be rather low.
    - bluepizza 4y ago
      This is a disrespectful oversimplification of a very complex issue. Older people remember that Charles de Gaulle did everything that he could to keep the UK out of European politics. They remember the first referendum on remain/leave, that happened in 1975. They remember all of the exceptions, negotiations, all of the crashes. The EU is great, and I personally consider a grave mistake to leave it, but this sort of unidimensional oversimplification of complex issues is a major factor in politics polarisation.
  - dfbsdfbwe2ef2e 4y ago
    I'm glad you agree with me. The Elders showed up for their civic right, and voted the UK out of the EU. So they're not great.
- ralusek 4y ago
  Ya, no reason to be apprehensive regarding an extra-national apparatus, barely representative or accountable to its constituents, entirely illiberal and increasingly exercising arbitrary authority, with a clear pattern of being the predominant tool for lawmaking well beyond its original purview. No reason to look at their American contemporaries' federal government, where virtually all issues are now to be addressed at the federal level or not at all, with consideration that the original responsibilities of the federal government were basically meant to be limited to few things beyond regulating interstate affairs. If anything, our elders have failed to impart sufficient skepticism of state authority. The current generation of young people doesn't even understand the difference between "what I think is right" and "what I'd like imposed by the state onto others," let alone "what I'd like to be imposed onto others across the broadest scope manageable by the largest authority under my influence." I will go so far to say that the primary obligation of elders in perpetuity will be to warn that any apparatus built in the name of imposing your will onto others is an apparatus whose objectives need not, and will not, mirror your own.
blamestross 4y ago
I really think the "Inflection Point" of the singularity/acceleration was very mundane: "Recently, we had the first generation in history where the wisdom of our elders was more harm than boon" for basically the first time in our history as a species.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  I disagree, not because I disagree with the fact that this happened: "Recently, we had the first generation in history where the wisdom of our elders was more harm than boon", but because I think the phenomenon is temporary. The reason that the life advice of the Boomers, Silent Generation, and a lot of Gen X doesn't hit is due to the fact that we underwent an information era shift during their lifetime, and that due to advances, such shifts can happen more quickly than they used to. However, now that we're settled in this new digital, informationally networked world, generations are going to grow up and build new wisdom to pass on. This just takes time. A lot of the Gen Z people I've run into are happier to listen to me than I expected, but if I step back it makes sense: I was one of the first people to grow up online (I was 4 in 1993 when I joined the party) and really internalize the new way of doing things, so more of what I say is actually relevant and I can also read digital context far better than most people my age or older. In 30 years, there's going to be a lot more guidance for young people from the now older Gen Z and the very small portion of us Millennials who got to be very online our whole lives. In addition, while most elders had harmful wisdom, not all did, and this is an important point because it disproves the idea that elders should inherently should not be listened to/were useless for one or two generations because of the technological advancements. Instead, I would say the fault lies with our cultures/societies. I'm a 3rd/4th generation geek, and so I, my siblings, and my cousins grew up with adults whose wisdom was still helpful, even in this weird age. There are dozens of us in my generation with varying temperaments, religious + political affiliations, ability levels, etc. and we all know things like troubleshooting skills, how the internet and Web work, basic systems-thinking, hacking stuff together to get the results we want, etc. So my generation and the one after can/could just walk up to pretty much any random adult and get some technologically/informationally literate advice. We also learned things like how to resolve nerdy arguments and got to hear conversations between our adults about things like why the Web was a Big Deal and what it meant. We received context and it's been key in keeping us all sane. This was a rare experience for my generation, but I think it will become more common in the next 50 years. I do think the disconnect is one reason for a lot of social upheaval we're seeing/about to see, though.
protomyth 4y ago
When the Elders die in large numbers, unexpectedly, the cultural knowledge of a people takes a rather large hit. Preserving that cultural knowledge is so important because the removal will negatively affect their lives because of the holes left.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Like what
  - barry-cotter 4y ago
    Don’t build housing on that flood plain, it floods. Don’t invest in airlines for the long haul. You absolutely must be planning on timing the popping of the bubble. Brazil was the country of the future when your grandfather was young, when your father was young and when you were young. By induction it will also have massive unfulfilled potential when you have grandchildren too. There are an awful lot of things that people are really bad are learning from books, and only slightly less bad at learning from people.
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      I’m laughing at the idea that you think the elderly have the best insights in future economic trends.
  - clsec 4y ago
    Things like language, spiritual practices, and traditional knowledge are lost. It can cause generational trauma, among other things. "Kill the Indian, save the man" - the statement has been attributed to Richard Henry Pratt, an Army officer who developed the Carlisle Indian School
    - protomyth 4y ago
      Which all caused an amazingly high suicide rate that definitely did not "save the man". Never mind the number of children killed at the boarding schools[0,1]. Now, we are dealing with elders dying (even when fully vaccinated[2]) that has created holes in our language, history, and cultural teachings. We have been trying for years to document everything, but living examples are so much better. 0) https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indian-boarding-school-deaths-interior-department-report-rcna28284 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indian-boarding-school-... - 'The report notes the investigation will likely "reveal the approximate number of Indian children who died at Federal Indian boarding schools to be in the thousands or tens of thousands.”' 1) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57325653 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57325653 2) Tribe paid everyone $500 to get vaccinated - that did an amazing job
ra120271 4y ago
I don’t think alignment of interest degenerates linearly with generations. I would suggest that people in their 50s today are much more aligned in interests (not talking hobbies - more generic interests) to someone in their 20s than someone in their 70s. This is not due to the age rather than the timing of the current technological age and its impact of social evolution of values. That said to align generations around epochs of time is disingenuous to the diversity and value anyone brings no matter how old they are. We need to tread carefully that we don’t perpetuate ageism.
- Mezzie 4y ago
  I agree with this, but 50s are more likely to be closer to 70s unless that 50 something was a techie or involved in other subcultures that exploded in popularity between their youth and now. My parents are both in this category (my mom is a sci-fi and hardware nerd, and my dad likes computer programming and video games) and both have real troubles socializing in their age bracket. My grandparents' generation had similar problems: Until he died, most people in both my grandpa's generation and the one after him thought the man was insane/eccentric at best for his television obsession, whereas by the time the Web hit it was starting to be seen as 'cool' by the youngest folks. Likewise, my great-uncle was seen as a weirdo for studying pop culture and now obviously that's an entire profession. It's less about interests being inherently tied to generation and more about whether that generation was actually permitted to pursue that interest. Particularly once you add things like sex on top of it: My uncle is an engineer but my mom wasn't allowed to go to college. She was supposed to be a SAHM. That makes it really hard for her to find other 60 something ladies that are taking their modems apart. > This is not due to the age rather than the timing of the current technological age and its impact of social evolution of values. Very much agree with this. It is funny how many teens and 20 somethings are boggled by 'old' people showing up in spaces with them sometimes. I've liked this thing for 25-30 years! I'm not going to stop liking it!
tyjen 4y ago
We're living in an era where expert level information is easily accessible on virtually every subject on mobiles devices. The reliance for an elder's traditional wisdom is collapsing, accelerated by the obsoleteness of their information relative to a rapidly-changing society. It turns out that Grandma's apple pie wasn't that great, or Grandpa's advice on job hunting isn't a very accurate, or helpful, in today's job market. Plus, add in the complication of newer generations moving away from their family's home area with greater frequency, decreasing contact time between parents and children, and grandparents and grandchildren. I think the weird transitional part still lies ahead, when people born after the internet age become elders. Currently, our elders lived in a time where their elders were valued, so they're met with a hostility that didn't exist for their elders in situations where they probably expect respect or appreciation. It must feel frustrating. Negative aspects aside, I believe there will still be value in elder wisdom. Not necessarily through traditional knowledge transference on subjects evolving day after day, but on how to navigate the stresses of a modern life, developing/recognizing healthy interpersonal relationships, and adapting to change. Transferable life skill knowledge that isn't necessarily taught in school or from busy parents. This can be passed on to grandchildren or mentoring children growing up in challenging situations via volunteerism. But, like the author pointed out, reliably tapping into this seems challenging.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  My grandfather was a poor Asian immigrant who achieved his dream of moving to America. He died in a hospital bitterly refusing to be treated by Black hospital staff. My grandmother in law is a sweet lady who also shared the opinion that mixed race marriages are unnatural. I am mixed race but I’m one of the good ones. Social norms have changed extremely fast. In addition to the lack of ability to interact with things like the internet, it’s so difficult to see value in anyone’s insights when you get nuggets like this.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    In my family, all the elders apparently became doctors around the ages of 50 to 60, but without having to do any of the reading or working or math credentialed doctors have to do. It is also funny seeing them grapple with daughter in laws having leverage now that they all earn hefty incomes and have no dependency on the elders.
marcinzm 4y ago
Elder's provide a stability of culture and knowledge which is both good and bad. It's sometimes joked that science progresses forward one funeral at a time. The great luminaires of yesterday are the curmudgeons of today holding back any new competing theories (until they die opening up the floodgates).

82 points by NickRandom 4y ago

Social obligation is missing in many today. Where there is a lack of obligation, entitlement will thrive. Do not be so sure of yourself in the face of your grandparent's wisdom.

dfbsdfbwe2ef2e 4y ago

On the other hand, Elders voted the UK out of the EU.

markb139 4y ago
Not all of us did
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
59125throwaya 4y ago
Trial by combat may have had its place in the leadership transition process
bluepizza 4y ago
They showed up for their civic rights. The youth did not. If the youth had listened to them, they would have voted, and that vote would have turned out different.
- madsbuch 4y ago
  Unfortunately, this does not matter when generation sizes differ. The older generations are by far larger. There are good resources on how this has shaped society. Example are less support for education support and better policies for investments. Ie. Large generations decide how the world looks for small generations.
  - bluepizza 4y ago
    Leave won with 51.9% of the votes, on a voter turnout of 72.2%. It was not the irreversible situation you are making it to be.
- anothernewdude 4y ago
  Whole point of the article was that we have elders because they look out for the youth. If they don't then they are useless, and can just die already.
  - throw__away7391 4y ago
    But, they aren't. The boomers I think are the first generation in historical memory to act this way. Everything is about them, it's always been about them. Look at Social Security funding/timing, look at the ages of our politicians. Look at the response to COVID (and for reference compare it to the response to AIDs). Literally every single thing they've gotten their hands on from infrastructure to politics to the economy and housing to the environment has been transformed into some kind of Ponzi scheme. I'm in my 40s now, but I still feel in some ways like a kid living in a world run by and for boomers. Politically, economically, culturally I definitely have more in common with a gen-z than boomers.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > The boomers I think are the first generation in historical memory to act this way No, they aren't. > Everything is about them, it's always been about them No, it isn't. > Look at Social Security funding/timing, You mean the way that, as Boomers were in early-mid career, the Silent Generation-dominated political class vastly increased taxes on workers for social security while also for the first time adopting taxes on social security benefits for the first time? > Look at the response to COVID (and for reference compare it to the response to AIDs). They are remarkably similar at the federal level, actually. In both cases, Republican Administrations deliberately didn't take it seriously for political reasons until media coverage of deaths and other political pressure from below resulted in a partial reversal. Everything about COVID happened faster, but the faster policy shift was mostly a result of it being a faster spreading, more acutely impactful pandemic, killing about as many people in its first year in the US as AIDS has in the US in total to date. EDIT TO ADD: > I'm in my 40s now, but I still feel in some ways like a kid living in a world run by and for boomers. This is relatively normal. Boomers in their own 40s experienced the same thing with regard to Silents. The big difference is because Gen X is a so much of bust generation compared to both Boomers and Millennials, they never became or will become dominant, and because not only are Millenials more liberal than Boomers but Gen X is more conservative than both, Gen X’s influence is basically to slightly extend and reinforce the feeling of Boomer domination for Millenials.
- cumshitpiss 4y ago
  It's incredibly unfair to blame Brexit on youth voter turn out... It was incredibly stupid to pose that question as a simple majority leave/stay referendum, and then equally stupid to actually go through with it given such a narrow majority. Certain capital owners were the ones who advocated for it, and ultimately the ones who benefited, and they manipulated the older and xenophobic.
  - tartoran 4y ago
    I wonder what percentage of those elders acknowledge they have been manipulated but I suspect that number to be rather low.
  - bluepizza 4y ago
    This is a disrespectful oversimplification of a very complex issue. Older people remember that Charles de Gaulle did everything that he could to keep the UK out of European politics. They remember the first referendum on remain/leave, that happened in 1975. They remember all of the exceptions, negotiations, all of the crashes. The EU is great, and I personally consider a grave mistake to leave it, but this sort of unidimensional oversimplification of complex issues is a major factor in politics polarisation.
- dfbsdfbwe2ef2e 4y ago
  I'm glad you agree with me. The Elders showed up for their civic right, and voted the UK out of the EU. So they're not great.
ralusek 4y ago
Ya, no reason to be apprehensive regarding an extra-national apparatus, barely representative or accountable to its constituents, entirely illiberal and increasingly exercising arbitrary authority, with a clear pattern of being the predominant tool for lawmaking well beyond its original purview. No reason to look at their American contemporaries' federal government, where virtually all issues are now to be addressed at the federal level or not at all, with consideration that the original responsibilities of the federal government were basically meant to be limited to few things beyond regulating interstate affairs. If anything, our elders have failed to impart sufficient skepticism of state authority. The current generation of young people doesn't even understand the difference between "what I think is right" and "what I'd like imposed by the state onto others," let alone "what I'd like to be imposed onto others across the broadest scope manageable by the largest authority under my influence." I will go so far to say that the primary obligation of elders in perpetuity will be to warn that any apparatus built in the name of imposing your will onto others is an apparatus whose objectives need not, and will not, mirror your own.

blamestross 4y ago

I really think the "Inflection Point" of the singularity/acceleration was very mundane: "Recently, we had the first generation in history where the wisdom of our elders was more harm than boon" for basically the first time in our history as a species.

Mezzie 4y ago
I disagree, not because I disagree with the fact that this happened: "Recently, we had the first generation in history where the wisdom of our elders was more harm than boon", but because I think the phenomenon is temporary. The reason that the life advice of the Boomers, Silent Generation, and a lot of Gen X doesn't hit is due to the fact that we underwent an information era shift during their lifetime, and that due to advances, such shifts can happen more quickly than they used to. However, now that we're settled in this new digital, informationally networked world, generations are going to grow up and build new wisdom to pass on. This just takes time. A lot of the Gen Z people I've run into are happier to listen to me than I expected, but if I step back it makes sense: I was one of the first people to grow up online (I was 4 in 1993 when I joined the party) and really internalize the new way of doing things, so more of what I say is actually relevant and I can also read digital context far better than most people my age or older. In 30 years, there's going to be a lot more guidance for young people from the now older Gen Z and the very small portion of us Millennials who got to be very online our whole lives. In addition, while most elders had harmful wisdom, not all did, and this is an important point because it disproves the idea that elders should inherently should not be listened to/were useless for one or two generations because of the technological advancements. Instead, I would say the fault lies with our cultures/societies. I'm a 3rd/4th generation geek, and so I, my siblings, and my cousins grew up with adults whose wisdom was still helpful, even in this weird age. There are dozens of us in my generation with varying temperaments, religious + political affiliations, ability levels, etc. and we all know things like troubleshooting skills, how the internet and Web work, basic systems-thinking, hacking stuff together to get the results we want, etc. So my generation and the one after can/could just walk up to pretty much any random adult and get some technologically/informationally literate advice. We also learned things like how to resolve nerdy arguments and got to hear conversations between our adults about things like why the Web was a Big Deal and what it meant. We received context and it's been key in keeping us all sane. This was a rare experience for my generation, but I think it will become more common in the next 50 years. I do think the disconnect is one reason for a lot of social upheaval we're seeing/about to see, though.

protomyth 4y ago

When the Elders die in large numbers, unexpectedly, the cultural knowledge of a people takes a rather large hit. Preserving that cultural knowledge is so important because the removal will negatively affect their lives because of the holes left.

oneoff786 4y ago
Like what
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  Don’t build housing on that flood plain, it floods. Don’t invest in airlines for the long haul. You absolutely must be planning on timing the popping of the bubble. Brazil was the country of the future when your grandfather was young, when your father was young and when you were young. By induction it will also have massive unfulfilled potential when you have grandchildren too. There are an awful lot of things that people are really bad are learning from books, and only slightly less bad at learning from people.
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    I’m laughing at the idea that you think the elderly have the best insights in future economic trends.
- clsec 4y ago
  Things like language, spiritual practices, and traditional knowledge are lost. It can cause generational trauma, among other things. "Kill the Indian, save the man" - the statement has been attributed to Richard Henry Pratt, an Army officer who developed the Carlisle Indian School
  - protomyth 4y ago
    Which all caused an amazingly high suicide rate that definitely did not "save the man". Never mind the number of children killed at the boarding schools[0,1]. Now, we are dealing with elders dying (even when fully vaccinated[2]) that has created holes in our language, history, and cultural teachings. We have been trying for years to document everything, but living examples are so much better. 0) https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indian-boarding-school-deaths-interior-department-report-rcna28284 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/indian-boarding-school-... - 'The report notes the investigation will likely "reveal the approximate number of Indian children who died at Federal Indian boarding schools to be in the thousands or tens of thousands.”' 1) https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57325653 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57325653 2) Tribe paid everyone $500 to get vaccinated - that did an amazing job

ra120271 4y ago

I don’t think alignment of interest degenerates linearly with generations. I would suggest that people in their 50s today are much more aligned in interests (not talking hobbies - more generic interests) to someone in their 20s than someone in their 70s. This is not due to the age rather than the timing of the current technological age and its impact of social evolution of values. That said to align generations around epochs of time is disingenuous to the diversity and value anyone brings no matter how old they are. We need to tread carefully that we don’t perpetuate ageism.

Mezzie 4y ago
I agree with this, but 50s are more likely to be closer to 70s unless that 50 something was a techie or involved in other subcultures that exploded in popularity between their youth and now. My parents are both in this category (my mom is a sci-fi and hardware nerd, and my dad likes computer programming and video games) and both have real troubles socializing in their age bracket. My grandparents' generation had similar problems: Until he died, most people in both my grandpa's generation and the one after him thought the man was insane/eccentric at best for his television obsession, whereas by the time the Web hit it was starting to be seen as 'cool' by the youngest folks. Likewise, my great-uncle was seen as a weirdo for studying pop culture and now obviously that's an entire profession. It's less about interests being inherently tied to generation and more about whether that generation was actually permitted to pursue that interest. Particularly once you add things like sex on top of it: My uncle is an engineer but my mom wasn't allowed to go to college. She was supposed to be a SAHM. That makes it really hard for her to find other 60 something ladies that are taking their modems apart. > This is not due to the age rather than the timing of the current technological age and its impact of social evolution of values. Very much agree with this. It is funny how many teens and 20 somethings are boggled by 'old' people showing up in spaces with them sometimes. I've liked this thing for 25-30 years! I'm not going to stop liking it!

tyjen 4y ago

We're living in an era where expert level information is easily accessible on virtually every subject on mobiles devices. The reliance for an elder's traditional wisdom is collapsing, accelerated by the obsoleteness of their information relative to a rapidly-changing society. It turns out that Grandma's apple pie wasn't that great, or Grandpa's advice on job hunting isn't a very accurate, or helpful, in today's job market. Plus, add in the complication of newer generations moving away from their family's home area with greater frequency, decreasing contact time between parents and children, and grandparents and grandchildren. I think the weird transitional part still lies ahead, when people born after the internet age become elders. Currently, our elders lived in a time where their elders were valued, so they're met with a hostility that didn't exist for their elders in situations where they probably expect respect or appreciation. It must feel frustrating. Negative aspects aside, I believe there will still be value in elder wisdom. Not necessarily through traditional knowledge transference on subjects evolving day after day, but on how to navigate the stresses of a modern life, developing/recognizing healthy interpersonal relationships, and adapting to change. Transferable life skill knowledge that isn't necessarily taught in school or from busy parents. This can be passed on to grandchildren or mentoring children growing up in challenging situations via volunteerism. But, like the author pointed out, reliably tapping into this seems challenging.

oneoff786 4y ago
My grandfather was a poor Asian immigrant who achieved his dream of moving to America. He died in a hospital bitterly refusing to be treated by Black hospital staff. My grandmother in law is a sweet lady who also shared the opinion that mixed race marriages are unnatural. I am mixed race but I’m one of the good ones. Social norms have changed extremely fast. In addition to the lack of ability to interact with things like the internet, it’s so difficult to see value in anyone’s insights when you get nuggets like this.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  In my family, all the elders apparently became doctors around the ages of 50 to 60, but without having to do any of the reading or working or math credentialed doctors have to do. It is also funny seeing them grapple with daughter in laws having leverage now that they all earn hefty incomes and have no dependency on the elders.

marcinzm 4y ago

Elder's provide a stability of culture and knowledge which is both good and bad. It's sometimes joked that science progresses forward one funeral at a time. The great luminaires of yesterday are the curmudgeons of today holding back any new competing theories (until they die opening up the floodgates).