4 ms·

Yeah I mean, even on the Framework I basically gave up on suspend. It wasn't freezing on the Framework like it was on the Dell, but there were definitely instan

Yeah I mean, even on the Framework I basically gave up on suspend. It wasn't freezing on the Framework like it was on the Dell, but there were definitely instances of things not working correctly upon wake, or with the machine never going to sleep, or with the machine waking itself, or with the battery draining too fast even in s2/deep. Switched to hibernate and I've been very happy.

gonehome 4y ago
It’s interesting this is still a problem going on twenty years. I guess there’s some reason it’ll never actually work a linux laptop.
- yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
  > I guess there’s some reason it’ll never actually work a linux laptop. Except it clearly can; every thinkpad I've owned handled S3 flawlessly in Linux, and Chromebooks manage fine.
  - POPOSYS 4y ago
    I have a Thinkpad X1 3rd Gen that does not handle that flawlessly. I do not want to discuss that, I just want to show the value of anecdotal evidence postings: zero.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      Anecdotal evidence does refute the point that "it’ll never actually work a linux laptop".
      - POPOSYS 4y ago
        OK, I re-read the thread and in this case you are right - if it works flawless at least on one specific laptop, it can not "never work at all". Sorry for the disturbance.
        gonehome 4y ago
        Nah you’re fine - I try to avoid saying things like “never actually work” because there’s always someone on HN who will point to one working example as if that absolves my point, but sometimes I forget. I’ve had thinkpads that don’t work either. The issue is suspend still doesn’t work reliably going on twenty years - even in the case where the laptop is explicitly a Linux laptop made for this purpose. It means my default assumption has to remain that it probably won’t work (or at least I shouldn't expect that it will). I’m tempted by the framework because I like what they’re trying to do, but if suspend is still an issue it’s imo not worth it (even ignoring the bad battery tradeoff). That’s even ignoring the continued distance apple keeps putting between themselves and everyone else with their custom hardware. Also the modular ports are essentially built in usb-c dongles. It’s not obvious to me why this is better than just having adapters. It takes up internal space and may be partly why the battery life is bad. Instead of adapters you have modules - is this a win?
        fsflover 4y ago
        Try a laptop designed for Linux. Suspend is working 100% of the time on my Librem 15.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  This seems like a general problem, not specifically Linux-related. On my particular HP Laptop, I have the reverse issue. On Windows sleep is a shitshow. It sometimes wakes up if I leave it alone during the night, it sometimes doesn't sleep at all (the screen stays on), it sometimes completely breaks (fans go full tilt, screen backlight comes on, but that's it) and I need to do a full reboot to make it work. On Linux: press sleep, and it sleeps. Press power, it wakes up. If it sleeps, it stays asleep. When it turns on, the computer is actually usable, no forced reboot required. This despite the fact that "HP recommends Windows 11", and the support page has no idea Linux even exists.
  - pmontra 4y ago
    This is also my experience on a HP ZBook from 2014, with an Nvidia Quadro that is about to become unsupported. The two minor problems I have are: shut down (very rare operation) results in a reboot so I have to press the power button when it starts rebooting; sometimes it resumes to a blank screen so I have to ALT F3 to console and ALT F2 to X11 to reset something. My session is preserved. Still better than having to use Windows or OSX.
  - vips7L 4y ago
    > It sometimes wakes up if I leave it alone during the night, This is most likely wake timers. Some program or windows itself is waking your machine to do updates. Disabling wake timers will prevent anything from waking the machine while sleeping.
    - vladvasiliu 4y ago
      I don't think it's the timers. I have disabled them (though maybe not all / they've been reset by some update). And this also happens during the day, say if I put it to sleep while going for a walk. It sometimes wakes up a few moments later, sometimes it'll sleep all the way. My schedule is fairly regular, too, so unless the timers have large jitter, I'd expect them to trigger roughly at the same time (either after X time, or at Y hour). This used to happen on Linux initially, too, and there were no timers there. I could stop it by disabling EC wake up. I've never found anything similar on Windows, so I just turn it off. At least it boots quickly...

gonehome 4y ago

It’s interesting this is still a problem going on twenty years. I guess there’s some reason it’ll never actually work a linux laptop.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> I guess there’s some reason it’ll never actually work a linux laptop. Except it clearly can; every thinkpad I've owned handled S3 flawlessly in Linux, and Chromebooks manage fine.
- POPOSYS 4y ago
  I have a Thinkpad X1 3rd Gen that does not handle that flawlessly. I do not want to discuss that, I just want to show the value of anecdotal evidence postings: zero.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    Anecdotal evidence does refute the point that "it’ll never actually work a linux laptop".
    - POPOSYS 4y ago
      OK, I re-read the thread and in this case you are right - if it works flawless at least on one specific laptop, it can not "never work at all". Sorry for the disturbance.
      - gonehome 4y ago
        Nah you’re fine - I try to avoid saying things like “never actually work” because there’s always someone on HN who will point to one working example as if that absolves my point, but sometimes I forget. I’ve had thinkpads that don’t work either. The issue is suspend still doesn’t work reliably going on twenty years - even in the case where the laptop is explicitly a Linux laptop made for this purpose. It means my default assumption has to remain that it probably won’t work (or at least I shouldn't expect that it will). I’m tempted by the framework because I like what they’re trying to do, but if suspend is still an issue it’s imo not worth it (even ignoring the bad battery tradeoff). That’s even ignoring the continued distance apple keeps putting between themselves and everyone else with their custom hardware. Also the modular ports are essentially built in usb-c dongles. It’s not obvious to me why this is better than just having adapters. It takes up internal space and may be partly why the battery life is bad. Instead of adapters you have modules - is this a win?
        fsflover 4y ago
        Try a laptop designed for Linux. Suspend is working 100% of the time on my Librem 15.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
This seems like a general problem, not specifically Linux-related. On my particular HP Laptop, I have the reverse issue. On Windows sleep is a shitshow. It sometimes wakes up if I leave it alone during the night, it sometimes doesn't sleep at all (the screen stays on), it sometimes completely breaks (fans go full tilt, screen backlight comes on, but that's it) and I need to do a full reboot to make it work. On Linux: press sleep, and it sleeps. Press power, it wakes up. If it sleeps, it stays asleep. When it turns on, the computer is actually usable, no forced reboot required. This despite the fact that "HP recommends Windows 11", and the support page has no idea Linux even exists.
- pmontra 4y ago
  This is also my experience on a HP ZBook from 2014, with an Nvidia Quadro that is about to become unsupported. The two minor problems I have are: shut down (very rare operation) results in a reboot so I have to press the power button when it starts rebooting; sometimes it resumes to a blank screen so I have to ALT F3 to console and ALT F2 to X11 to reset something. My session is preserved. Still better than having to use Windows or OSX.
- vips7L 4y ago
  > It sometimes wakes up if I leave it alone during the night, This is most likely wake timers. Some program or windows itself is waking your machine to do updates. Disabling wake timers will prevent anything from waking the machine while sleeping.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    I don't think it's the timers. I have disabled them (though maybe not all / they've been reset by some update). And this also happens during the day, say if I put it to sleep while going for a walk. It sometimes wakes up a few moments later, sometimes it'll sleep all the way. My schedule is fairly regular, too, so unless the timers have large jitter, I'd expect them to trigger roughly at the same time (either after X time, or at Y hour). This used to happen on Linux initially, too, and there were no timers there. I could stop it by disabling EC wake up. I've never found anything similar on Windows, so I just turn it off. At least it boots quickly...