5 ms·

But Japan has always been a tech labor-shortage economy. That should incentivize employers to be advertising compensation. I am probably understanding your answ

But Japan has always been a tech labor-shortage economy. That should incentivize employers to be advertising compensation. I am probably understanding your answer wrong. Could you please elaborate?

lotsofpulp 4y ago
The evidence points to the assumption of a shortage being wrong. By definition, a shortage of labor sellers means labor sellers have an advantage in negotiations. From what I understand about Japan, even in the tech sector, the quality of life for labor sellers is pretty bad with long hours and not much room for high pay. I imagine if Japanese tech workers has the option of working for employers with compensation offerings like Google and Apple and other US companies, then they would not accept the quality of life that they are. And even with the terrible quality of life they have now, the Japanese world keeps spinning, so any shortage is clearly not short enough to be a showstopper (in the short term).
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  Even with an advantage, it takes a concerted effort to push for culture change. Things can get by on inertia for a long time.
  - srvmshr 4y ago
    That is the main reason IMHO plaguing the work culture. Changes are slow because of inertia & the fact everyone tries to keep a decorum and play nice / polite
- srvmshr 4y ago
  > And even with the terrible quality of life they have now, the Japanese world keeps spinning So it boils down to the working culture, no? The one I referenced initially.. My wife is interviewing for Oracle HR right now (mostly done deal). She is due for the final interview tomorrow. The offer has still not mentioned her compensation yet - although from hearsay she knows a ballpark. It seems even American companies play by Japanese ways when in Japan.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Suppose a Japanese bank had a technical problem that only one person could fix and it had brought down their whole system and they were losing tons of money. Culture would take a backseat and the Japanese execs would start talking compensation real fast. Clearly whoever is in charge of hiring at Oracle for your wife’s position is betting that your wife will not mind waiting to discuss compensation and/or they can find someone else if your wife does bring it up. Simultaneously, your wife is betting that she cannot find another position if she brings up compensation at a point that she thinks could cost her the offer. If your wife was indispensable to Oracle HR, and she wanted to bet on that, there is no reason she cannot start talking compensation whenever she wants. Or if she has alternatives that are willing to talk compensation, then she can skip Oracle HR and move on to better options.
    - srvmshr 4y ago
      She does have alternatives in IBM & Tesla. But they functioned the exact same way in interview. And given she's a top biller (~60 million yen per annum for her employer) Oracle wants her by August 1st week which is insane given she still has to give 30 days notice to Michael Page (but that will remain to be seen). I think in her case, she didn't bring it up because that isn't the norm. So all in all, it's not the market dynamics - but culture dynamics still.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > By definition, a shortage of labor sellers means labor sellers have an advantage in negotiations. This is untrue. 1) Employers have more information about the current situation than applicants, and 2) employers collude, applicants don't.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    True, the context I intended was where all participants have information about the market. If either party has incomplete or inaccurate data, then there exists arbitrage opportunity. Hence the importance of price transparency, and laws requiring a minimum pay figure are a start.
goodpoint 4y ago
> Japan has always been a tech labor-shortage economy The meagre salaries tell a different story.
- srvmshr 4y ago
  It is a labor-short economy. But the labor pricing isn't changing because hiring runs like a cartel. Employers don't collude but there is an "accepted bracket" of salaries generally known, which hiring managers don't deviate from. Its like how you're aware of a price of an item across different stores or markets. Same - but the item is a tech employee.

But Japan has always been a tech labor-shortage economy. That should incentivize employers to be advertising compensation. I am probably understanding your answer wrong. Could you please elaborate?

lotsofpulp 4y ago

The evidence points to the assumption of a shortage being wrong. By definition, a shortage of labor sellers means labor sellers have an advantage in negotiations. From what I understand about Japan, even in the tech sector, the quality of life for labor sellers is pretty bad with long hours and not much room for high pay. I imagine if Japanese tech workers has the option of working for employers with compensation offerings like Google and Apple and other US companies, then they would not accept the quality of life that they are. And even with the terrible quality of life they have now, the Japanese world keeps spinning, so any shortage is clearly not short enough to be a showstopper (in the short term).

Dylan16807 4y ago
Even with an advantage, it takes a concerted effort to push for culture change. Things can get by on inertia for a long time.
- srvmshr 4y ago
  That is the main reason IMHO plaguing the work culture. Changes are slow because of inertia & the fact everyone tries to keep a decorum and play nice / polite
srvmshr 4y ago
> And even with the terrible quality of life they have now, the Japanese world keeps spinning So it boils down to the working culture, no? The one I referenced initially.. My wife is interviewing for Oracle HR right now (mostly done deal). She is due for the final interview tomorrow. The offer has still not mentioned her compensation yet - although from hearsay she knows a ballpark. It seems even American companies play by Japanese ways when in Japan.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Suppose a Japanese bank had a technical problem that only one person could fix and it had brought down their whole system and they were losing tons of money. Culture would take a backseat and the Japanese execs would start talking compensation real fast. Clearly whoever is in charge of hiring at Oracle for your wife’s position is betting that your wife will not mind waiting to discuss compensation and/or they can find someone else if your wife does bring it up. Simultaneously, your wife is betting that she cannot find another position if she brings up compensation at a point that she thinks could cost her the offer. If your wife was indispensable to Oracle HR, and she wanted to bet on that, there is no reason she cannot start talking compensation whenever she wants. Or if she has alternatives that are willing to talk compensation, then she can skip Oracle HR and move on to better options.
  - srvmshr 4y ago
    She does have alternatives in IBM & Tesla. But they functioned the exact same way in interview. And given she's a top biller (~60 million yen per annum for her employer) Oracle wants her by August 1st week which is insane given she still has to give 30 days notice to Michael Page (but that will remain to be seen). I think in her case, she didn't bring it up because that isn't the norm. So all in all, it's not the market dynamics - but culture dynamics still.
pessimizer 4y ago
> By definition, a shortage of labor sellers means labor sellers have an advantage in negotiations. This is untrue. 1) Employers have more information about the current situation than applicants, and 2) employers collude, applicants don't.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  True, the context I intended was where all participants have information about the market. If either party has incomplete or inaccurate data, then there exists arbitrage opportunity. Hence the importance of price transparency, and laws requiring a minimum pay figure are a start.

goodpoint 4y ago

> Japan has always been a tech labor-shortage economy The meagre salaries tell a different story.

srvmshr 4y ago
It is a labor-short economy. But the labor pricing isn't changing because hiring runs like a cartel. Employers don't collude but there is an "accepted bracket" of salaries generally known, which hiring managers don't deviate from. Its like how you're aware of a price of an item across different stores or markets. Same - but the item is a tech employee.