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Its an unpopular opinion but no. Much as we cannot stop drowning in water with more water, we cannot extinguish climate change caused by technocratic neolibera
by nimbius 4y ago
Its an unpopular opinion but no. Much as we cannot stop drowning in water with more water, we cannot extinguish climate change caused by technocratic neoliberal consumer capitalism with more of the same. The effort must exist outside a market. it cannot be commercialized, it exists as an inefficiency, and it remains a corrective action to right some of the most egregious hubris of mankinds existence on this planet. ideally it should be done in silence without marketing, discipline without aggrandizement, and with remorse.
- ch4s3 4y agoYou say that as though no one outside of a market economy every burned coal or clear cut a forrest.
- frobishercresc 4y agoTechnocratic neoliberal consumer capitalism isn't the only form of market economy, it's just the form that uses up the most land without regard to social and environmental impact because it is inherently focused on capital gains.
- ch4s3 4y ago> uses up the most land How are you quantifying that?
- frobishercresc 4y agoIt's self evident, endless and unchecked profit motives (neoliberalism) are divorced from considerations of resource sustainability or genuine social need, it will always use up more land than market economies with a more social minded approach. If that isn't enough, loss of tree cover since 2001: Neoliberal capitalist USA: 16% [1] [1] https://www.globalforestwatch.org/dashboards/country/BRA https://www.globalforestwatch.org/dashboards/country/BRA Socialism with Chinese Characteristics China: 6.7% [2] [2] https://www.globalforestwatch.org/dashboards/country/CHN/ https://www.globalforestwatch.org/dashboards/country/CHN/
- GavinMcG 4y agoThat’s a non sequitur. So what if bad things have happened outside of a market? The question is whether a solution can be found outside one.
- ch4s3 4y agoIt's not a non sequitur at all. The original claim was that contemporary market economies caused the problem so markets can't be part of the solution. I think this is first and foremost a logical fallacy. I'm also pointing out that the need for energy and resources created the problem, which is orthogonal to markets. Markets are great for optimizing things that can be priced. Pricing carbon, and wild spaces can be really powerful levers for fixing some of these problems.
- GavinMcG 4y agoIt didn’t say it was caused by. It said it couldn’t be solved within.
- hedora 4y agoIt's easily solved with markets: Charge a carbon recapture tax equivalent to direct air capture of 150% of the product's greenhouse emissions. (This is affordable; it'd end up being about $1/gallon of gas tax.) Getting our corrupt government to actually do that is another story, even with > 60% of the population calling for drastic, urgent action.
- mr_toad 4y agoIf France is anything to go buy the population only call for drastic action when they don’t have to pay for it themselves. Start putting up gas prices and see what happens.
- imtringued 4y agoPay a co2 dividend, market it as taking away free co2 pollution rights from the rich and corporations and giving them back to the people.
- hedora 4y agoWell, gas just jumped $2 for no good reason. Leaders could take half to avoid the literal collapse of civilization, then blame Putin for the price hike. Alternatively, they could end all fossil fuel subsidies, and use that money instead.
- imtringued 4y agoThe problem isn't markets. The problem is growth dependence.