5 ms·

It's difficult for businesses to compete with the government printing massive amounts of money and giving it to people to not work.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
How much money did the government give to people to not work and during which time period?
- newfriend 4y ago
  It's obviously extremely difficult to give a number because of the wide variety of situations and differences by state, but it has been widely reported to be extremely generous to those who do not work. Estimates range from 50k [1] to 100k [2]. People were getting $600 per week in federal unemployment alone [3], which is more than many jobs pay. > NPR spoke to Katharine Thomas, who works the cash register at a small food co-op in Wisconsin. Thomas remembers seeing people around her lose jobs and collect the state unemployment income plus the extra federal relief of $600 a week. > "I felt very angry," she says. "I have to go to work. And I make less money, being essential. $600 a week — that's almost the whole paycheck for me. Even with hazard pay, I still don't make that much money." [1] https://taxfoundation.org/total-covid-relief-unemployment-insurance/ https://taxfoundation.org/total-covid-relief-unemployment-in... [2] https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/1371478357418909703 https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/1371478357418909703 [3] https://www.npr.org/2020/07/27/895674685/-600-a-week-poverty-remedy-or-job-slayer https://www.npr.org/2020/07/27/895674685/-600-a-week-poverty...
  - lovich 4y ago
    Oh shit is that still occurring? Weird I thought that ended a while ago but obviously if you’re this angry the government must have a line item for making sure no one works currently. No possible way that ended ages ago but is still being used as a talking point for why shitty companies can’t respond to systematic changes in the market
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    So the end date of the benefits is Sep 6, 2021. Is the claim here that the additional income was so high that people still no longer have to work in Jul 2022? And the amount of benefits received is calculated based on people with children earning $60k per year in GA and $80k in MA (a very high cost of living state). Either way, both of these figures are above median incomes, so is the claim here that people with above median incomes quit their jobs in order to collect temporary benefits and then never re entered the workforce?
NineStarPoint 4y ago
Even in its massive printing of money, the government gave about $13,000 of stimulus to 150 million households across 2 years (this is counting things like increased unemployment benefits, food assistance, delayed student loan payments, etc). This puts the stimulus at below the second decile for income for a single year. Even for the most frugal of households, the money the government handed them long ago ran out.
- newfriend 4y ago
  This is not correct. There were a multitude of payments given out besides stimulus. The CARES act alone gave $600/week of federal money for 17 weeks, totaling almost 11k. You are vastly underestimating the amount of aid given for unemployment. It's been so widely known that it's become a meme: the unemployed person making more money playing xbox than they did when they had to work. [1] https://taxfoundation.org/total-covid-relief-unemployment-insurance/ https://taxfoundation.org/total-covid-relief-unemployment-in... [2] https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/1371277417600454658 https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/1371277417600454658
  - NineStarPoint 4y ago
    I wasn’t just talking about the stimulus checks. 2 trillion is the entirety of extra money spent by the federal government on individuals over the course of the various pandemic bills. (There was another 2.5-3 trillion of spending, but that was spent on other interest groups such as businesses and medical providers) You’re right that the maximum amount of money an individual could have received from the government is quite high. But for every household that received more than the 13k I stated above, other households received proportionally less. (Which is to say while undoubtably some people lived the meme you mentioned, the vast majority of people weren’t given that much money) Plus it doesn’t change the main point that the spending stopped in Sept 2021. We’re two months off from it having been a year since extra unemployment benefits were a factor.
otikik 4y ago
That’s a narrative that is very convenient for companies big companies, who can very cheaply pay people to spread it around. There’s a different narrative that goes like this: those companies fired a bunch of people during lockdown, and the government decided to intervene and give them money (not enough to cover the rent and food expenses while lockdown) Have some “profiteered” from that? Probably. It’s a big number of people. For a lot of people it wasn’t enough. So they found other ways to survive. Now the companies (who let’s remember, shacked everyone in the first place) want to go back to how things were before. With same rates. And the pandemic hasn’t finished yet (there’s new variants going on). In this context, would it be wise for people to go back? A lot of them have been forced into finding something else (which is more pandemic-resilient). Cutting expenses, moving out of big cities, etc. Another lockdown and they would be fired again. It looks like a bad deal to me.
- newfriend 4y ago
  > those companies fired a bunch of people during lockdown Oh you mean when the government essentially shut down their businesses?
  - true_religion 4y ago
    A global pandemic caused the lockdown that made it harder to operate their businesses in the same way as before. They are unable or unwilling to adapt, and did not have enough savings to continue fulfilling their workers employment contracts. Then the government took care of its citizens financial welfare. I am not seeing any governmental missteps here. Can you make it more clear where they went wrong?
    - bluescrn 4y ago
      > A global pandemic caused the lockdown No. A global pandemic caused disease and death. Governments imposed lockdowns. Maybe that was the right course of action, maybe it wasn't. But it's done now, and now we have to pay for the cost of the Covid response, something we'll probably be doing for the rest of our lives.
lovich 4y ago
- piva00 4y ago
  [flagged]
- madengr 4y ago
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We ban accounts that do that. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. Your comment would be fine without the last paragraph. Actually it would have been fine with just the one substantive sentence ("The government gave out [etc.]") If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
piva00 4y ago
I believe this[0] was on HN's front page a few days ago. [0] https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544 https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544

lotsofpulp 4y ago

How much money did the government give to people to not work and during which time period?

newfriend 4y ago
It's obviously extremely difficult to give a number because of the wide variety of situations and differences by state, but it has been widely reported to be extremely generous to those who do not work. Estimates range from 50k [1] to 100k [2]. People were getting $600 per week in federal unemployment alone [3], which is more than many jobs pay. > NPR spoke to Katharine Thomas, who works the cash register at a small food co-op in Wisconsin. Thomas remembers seeing people around her lose jobs and collect the state unemployment income plus the extra federal relief of $600 a week. > "I felt very angry," she says. "I have to go to work. And I make less money, being essential. $600 a week — that's almost the whole paycheck for me. Even with hazard pay, I still don't make that much money." [1] https://taxfoundation.org/total-covid-relief-unemployment-insurance/ https://taxfoundation.org/total-covid-relief-unemployment-in... [2] https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/1371478357418909703 https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/1371478357418909703 [3] https://www.npr.org/2020/07/27/895674685/-600-a-week-poverty-remedy-or-job-slayer https://www.npr.org/2020/07/27/895674685/-600-a-week-poverty...
- lovich 4y ago
  Oh shit is that still occurring? Weird I thought that ended a while ago but obviously if you’re this angry the government must have a line item for making sure no one works currently. No possible way that ended ages ago but is still being used as a talking point for why shitty companies can’t respond to systematic changes in the market
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  So the end date of the benefits is Sep 6, 2021. Is the claim here that the additional income was so high that people still no longer have to work in Jul 2022? And the amount of benefits received is calculated based on people with children earning $60k per year in GA and $80k in MA (a very high cost of living state). Either way, both of these figures are above median incomes, so is the claim here that people with above median incomes quit their jobs in order to collect temporary benefits and then never re entered the workforce?

NineStarPoint 4y ago

Even in its massive printing of money, the government gave about $13,000 of stimulus to 150 million households across 2 years (this is counting things like increased unemployment benefits, food assistance, delayed student loan payments, etc). This puts the stimulus at below the second decile for income for a single year. Even for the most frugal of households, the money the government handed them long ago ran out.

newfriend 4y ago
This is not correct. There were a multitude of payments given out besides stimulus. The CARES act alone gave $600/week of federal money for 17 weeks, totaling almost 11k. You are vastly underestimating the amount of aid given for unemployment. It's been so widely known that it's become a meme: the unemployed person making more money playing xbox than they did when they had to work. [1] https://taxfoundation.org/total-covid-relief-unemployment-insurance/ https://taxfoundation.org/total-covid-relief-unemployment-in... [2] https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/1371277417600454658 https://twitter.com/MarcGoldwein/status/1371277417600454658
- NineStarPoint 4y ago
  I wasn’t just talking about the stimulus checks. 2 trillion is the entirety of extra money spent by the federal government on individuals over the course of the various pandemic bills. (There was another 2.5-3 trillion of spending, but that was spent on other interest groups such as businesses and medical providers) You’re right that the maximum amount of money an individual could have received from the government is quite high. But for every household that received more than the 13k I stated above, other households received proportionally less. (Which is to say while undoubtably some people lived the meme you mentioned, the vast majority of people weren’t given that much money) Plus it doesn’t change the main point that the spending stopped in Sept 2021. We’re two months off from it having been a year since extra unemployment benefits were a factor.

otikik 4y ago

That’s a narrative that is very convenient for companies big companies, who can very cheaply pay people to spread it around. There’s a different narrative that goes like this: those companies fired a bunch of people during lockdown, and the government decided to intervene and give them money (not enough to cover the rent and food expenses while lockdown) Have some “profiteered” from that? Probably. It’s a big number of people. For a lot of people it wasn’t enough. So they found other ways to survive. Now the companies (who let’s remember, shacked everyone in the first place) want to go back to how things were before. With same rates. And the pandemic hasn’t finished yet (there’s new variants going on). In this context, would it be wise for people to go back? A lot of them have been forced into finding something else (which is more pandemic-resilient). Cutting expenses, moving out of big cities, etc. Another lockdown and they would be fired again. It looks like a bad deal to me.

newfriend 4y ago
> those companies fired a bunch of people during lockdown Oh you mean when the government essentially shut down their businesses?
- true_religion 4y ago
  A global pandemic caused the lockdown that made it harder to operate their businesses in the same way as before. They are unable or unwilling to adapt, and did not have enough savings to continue fulfilling their workers employment contracts. Then the government took care of its citizens financial welfare. I am not seeing any governmental missteps here. Can you make it more clear where they went wrong?
  - bluescrn 4y ago
    > A global pandemic caused the lockdown No. A global pandemic caused disease and death. Governments imposed lockdowns. Maybe that was the right course of action, maybe it wasn't. But it's done now, and now we have to pay for the cost of the Covid response, something we'll probably be doing for the rest of our lives.

lovich 4y ago

piva00 4y ago
[flagged]
madengr 4y ago
dang 4y ago
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. We ban accounts that do that. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. Your comment would be fine without the last paragraph. Actually it would have been fine with just the one substantive sentence ("The government gave out [etc.]") If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

piva00 4y ago

I believe this[0] was on HN's front page a few days ago. [0] https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544 https://twitter.com/paulisci/status/1549527748950892544